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Beware - Roger Waters Flickering Flame Vol 1 will not play in your computer... (1 Viewer)

Keith Paynter

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I don't know how this is in the US, but stopping into my local A&B I saw the regular version (no slip cover), and in overlaid black on white on the booklet front cover:

"This disc will not play in a PC or Mac"

This is not a compact disc.

The music industry is in such a crumbling, paranoid state because it does not have the sense to work with the current state of digital music technology. Instead of charging too much, and being a faceless corpororate business, it really ought to learn how to effectively compete with a new business model.

The CD single is a failure, because it is far too much to spend on a hit song (between 50-75% of the full album price). The lost vinyl single was a great value at (typically) 1/5th the selling price of the vinyl LP. If CD's are so much cheaper to make, why do record companies have to charge so much more for them?

The big five have really lost touch with the music industry.
 

KeithH

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Keith, I read about this on another web site recently. This is very disappointing. I don't know if the US version is copy-protected, but I hope not. I like Roger Waters, but if the US version of this album is copy-protected, I won't be buying it. Damn the record industry for alienating the honest consumer.
 

KeithH

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I just went to amazon.com and found that Flickering Flame is an import, so the copy Amazon would send probably is copy-protected. In addition, an editorial review of the album included on the web site said that no US release is scheduled. I won't be ordering this title. :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:
 

Frank_S

Supporting Actor
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"This disc will not play in a PC or Mac"

This is not a compact disc.
If the RIAA has it their way, you won't be able to copy any CD's on your computer. I have bought very few CD's(3-4)in the past year, however I've been stocking up on LP's. I can't wait to hear all the fuss when these A'holes finally get their way and copy protect all discs. Just look at the movie industry for example, they are ramping up their version of copy protection, IE, Firewire(5C) on the new Mitsubishi RPTV's and Sony uses DVI(DTCP), which does'nt allow any copying. I believe 5C(Firewire) allows you to make 1 copy or it's up to the source whether or not they allow you to copy. The digital medium is going to cause grief to all of us in the future, we are just now beginning to see the results. It will only get worse.
 

Wayne Bundrick

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I hope this doesn't run afoul of HTF policy, but there are reports that you need only a felt tip pen to defeat at least two of the current anti-rip CD protection schemes. Just mark over the data session ring at the outer edge of the disc (it's corrupt and that's why it screws up computers) so that the CD drive won't be able to start reading the data session.
Here's a link to a news article:
Link Removed
And here's a translation of the German website that discovered it. It has pictures that clearly show how to do it.
Link Removed
 

KeithH

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Wayne, I think discussing ways around CD copy protection goes against HTF policy. It's like working around Macrovision on DVDs.

I too have read about the felt-tip pen trick for copy-protected CDs. While I don't condone the practice if it is used to facilitate the production of copies for illegal distribution, I think it is funny how quickly a way around the copy-protection scheme was developed. I'm sure far more time went into developing the copy-protection scheme in the first place. :p)
 

Wayne Bundrick

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I don't condone copying music that you don't already own. Yes, the felt-tip pen will let you copy the CD. But that's not the point. You have to use the felt-tip pen just to be able to play the disc on a PC. I think it's wrong to call it copy protection, because you can still make a perfect digital copy using the CD player's digital output. Instead, it should be called "playback prevention".
 

KeithH

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Wayne, that's true. It is absolutely ridiculous that the record labels would release discs (not CDs) with a protection scheme that would render them unplayable on certain players (DVD, PC). This is unexcusable. It would be bad enough if the discs could be played on all players and simply couldn't be copied. What the record labels have done is say, "Please don't buy our music. We don't want your business." Frankly, if the felt-tip pen trick really works, I think it should be made known to public at large. If I were independently wealthy, I might take out ad space in all major newspapers explaining the felt-tip pen trick. So I might be sued. Oh well. Remember, I would do this if independently wealthy. :p)
 

Keith Paynter

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Technically you don't own the music - you own the mechanical right to reproduce the performance on the appropriate device (LP, CD Cassette, etc.).

The Betamax case gave the consumer the right to record and time shift for personal, non-profit use. That should extend to recorded media, whether it be video or audio. If I choose to make an MP3 version for use in a more personal format. I do enjoy having six hours of high quality MP3 audio when I am working, driving, or whatever the case may be. If the record companies are paranoid, the should be attacking sotorage media (CD-R's, media cards, hard drives, etc.) CD-Rs are already being taxed in order to compensate artists (yeah, right).
 

Wayne Bundrick

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When you own a CD you own what copyright law considers to be a phonorecord, which is apparently not the same as a "copy". Perhaps we need an act of Congress that explicitly gives the owner of a phonorecord the right to actually play it.

Data CD-Rs do not have a royalty, only audio CD-Rs do, hence the difference in price, and the reason standalone audio CD recorders are made to not work with data CD-R discs.
 

Keith Paynter

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CD-R's have fees levied on them in Canada, at the insistance of several artists, including Bryan Adams. Additional duties were levied by the federal government in this regard a couple of years ago. The change has not been that significant to the consumer since the quantity of CD-R's produced and bulk sold to big box retailers keep a lower price in line. When you can buy bulk media in 100 CD packs here for about $60 CDN you don't see the duty the same as when you buy singles from Staples for $2.00
 

Jack Briggs

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I truly think that with all this happening at once--CD copy-protection paranoia and heavy-handed encoding schemes, DVI connections for HDTV, the studio resistance to HD-DVD, etc.--we are going to bear witness to some sort of litigation apocalypse in the courts before long. The content providers are overstepping their hands--even to the point where a copy-protected CD is now capable of frying an iMac.

In all my years I've never seen it get this bad.
 

Martin Fontaine

Supporting Actor
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Here's one practice that I did and encourage.

The new Natalie Imbruglia album, when it came out in the UK was Play-Protected. So someone out there has found a way around it and posted in on the net. I downloaded it and made a CD-R of it. When it came out here in a version that I was ALLOWED TO PLAY, I tossed the copy I made from the MP3s and bought the proper version.
 

KeithH

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I saw copies of Flickering Flame at a small record store in the US yesterday, and there was no mention of copy protection or the inability to play the disc on a PC or Mac. I still didn't buy it. For what it's worth, these copies came in a red slipcase. Is the warning on the jewel case? The CD was $15.
 

Keith Paynter

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The red slipcase is is a limited edition cover.
From http://www.rogerwaters.com
flickeringlimited.jpg
 

KeithH

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Keith, thanks for the info. I noticed that rogerwaters.com makes no mention of the CD being copy-protected. The version with the red slipcase is the one I saw yesterday. Considering it is an import, I was surprised to see that the store I was in had several copies marked $15. Amazon and CDNOW have it for around twice as much. Anyway, the red slipcase I saw has no statement about copy protection, and I see no statement on the standard album cover. My guess is that the statement appears on the back cover (jewel case, not red slipcase). Is this correct? I would love to get this CD for $15, but not if it is copy-protected. I think it sucks that the red slipcase has no statement of copy protection.
 

Keith Paynter

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The album is not domestically manufactured in the US, and while the UK CD does not contain any markings as such, the Canadian edition contains the label as discussed in the beginning of this thread, and is clearly marked on the front cover of the black booklet in the bottom right hand corner.

I have not purchased this CD, (I do not own or listen to any post-Floyd Waters material - not that interested) but if anyone has the evil Canadian edition and would be willing to put up a scan of the front cover, it would help end the confusion.

It's probably not in Sony's best interest to use advertising copy or display the cover with the warning graphic, for it will seriously affect sales.
 

KeithH

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Keith, thanks for the info. I too would like to see a scan of the cover with the copy protection warning. I don't know where the import version I saw for $15 came from. As I said, I won't be buying it.

It's probably not in Sony's best interest to use advertising copy or display the cover with the warning graphic, for it will seriously affect sales.
I understand what you are saying, but Sony could then infuriate a lot of consumers who will not know that the disc is copy-protected until they get it home and find that it will no play on their PC, Mac, or DVD player. I know I would be pi$$ed.
 

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