Best RPTV under $2500?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by JeremySt, Jul 11, 2002.

  1. JeremySt

    JeremySt Screenwriter

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    I am looking to get a 16X9 Rear projection, preferrably one that converts all signals to progressive, but will also accept pregressive signals from a DVD player. Also, zoom for un-enhanced or 4x3 DVDs. My local appliance store is having a sale, and they sell Sony, Mits, and Toshiba.
     
  2. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    Jeremy,

    Any of the three should be a good set for you. The Mits isn't known for having great line doubling or variable stretch modes for 4/3 but a straight zoom for non-anamorphic letterbox dvds is going to be done the same on any set.

    Toshiba has very good variable stretch modes and the variable stretch on the Sony (I have a KP57HW40) is also quite good.

    Any of the three brands will accept a progressive scan signal but the Toshiba converts it to 540p which in some folk's opinion causes some loss of resolution.

    Sony and Mits will display 480p natively. Mits has a reputation for severe red push, but this may have been corrected as they are currently introducing new models. Most sets have about 15% red push but the Mits were running 25% or so. The red push on the Sonys can be corrected easily in the service menu and SVM can be adjusted or turned off without clipping any wires.

    If regular tv is still a high priority, you might want to consider Sony or Toshiba over Mitsubishi.
     
  3. BruceSpielbauer

    BruceSpielbauer Second Unit

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    In respectful, and mild disagreement with the above post, I would certainly not dismiss the entire Mits line due to the "red push" issue. Nor would I so quickly dismiss it on the basis of the 4 X 3 stretch mode.
    On many Mits models, (especially the latest batch) the red push is easily correctible, directly from the regular menus. On a few, the user must access the service menu (which admittedly is not kosher according to Mits, but it is certainly an easy fix). Then, there have been a few models in the past where the fix was more drastic -- overwriting the set's EEPROM settings. This involved running a cable from the set to a PC, (and not any clipping of wires). Even this fix is actually fairly easy. The excessive red push has been "fixable" on ALL models, and it is easy to find out which ones can be "easily" fixed. That said, once the red push issue is gone, and the set is properly calibrated, many, MANY calibrators will tell you the picture is as good, if not the best, of "any consumer set on the market" (an exact quote from two ISF calibrators).

    Turning of SVM on any of the Mits sets is also done from the menus (no clipping wires, here, either).

    Because of the above, I went with a Mits. I dismissed the Sonys because of some issues which (apparently) could not be tweaked, or fixed, and I dismissed the Toshibas because of the ghosting (which cannot be fixed), and the 540p upconvert (which cannot be fixed). Admittedly, the Toshiba DOES have a 4 X 3 stretch mode which looks slightly better than the Mits. Be aware of this, if this is an important issue to you. I judged the Mits' stretch mode to be quite good enough for my needs.

    By the way, the Pioneers are also quite good -- but you usually pay more for these.

    Just me humble opinion...

    -Bruce
     
  4. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    Bruce,
    Thanks for the update on Mits sets.
    My experience was based on research and shopping last October and obviously out of date and erroneous. At that time the red push thing involved the eprom solution or external attenuators, neither of which I was willing to deal with.

    I am glad to hear this is no longer the case.
     
  5. BruceSpielbauer

    BruceSpielbauer Second Unit

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    No problem, Steve. I THINK that on the 2001s and 2002s, the fix could be done in the service menu for any of the integrated models. On the non-integrated ones, the solutions involved the attenuator or the EEPROM I2C fix.

    Now, the Mits line has become almost all integrated, and one post I read the other day was from a user who reported that, on the new 2003s, the REGULAR menus actually had color decoder controls for EACH of the individual colors: For example, clicking through the menus, after COLOR and TINT, he found: "RED COLOR DECODER" with a slide bar, then, "GREEN COLOR DECODER" with another slide bar, etc. I have not yet seen this myself. This was NOT in the service menus, he claimed.

    -Bruce
     
  6. JeremySt

    JeremySt Screenwriter

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    Thanks for the info Bruce and Steve. I purchased a Mistubishi WT-46809 (46" Rear Projection) I got it for under 2k from a local dealer, 2yr warranty, new in a box, and with great terms)

    I have been adjusting the convergance and messing with calibration over the weekend, getting a feel for the image. It has a plethora of image size adjustments, and the picture is pretty darn good. I have a Denon DVD player that looks good, but I borrowed a progressive Denon machine yesterday, and it blows away the non progressive machine. I initially calibrated the color with the image temp set on 6500k, but found that the red push was somewhat irritating. Cary Grant looked like a tomato in North by North West. I set the color temp to "medium", re-calibrated, and have been much happier with what the picture. Any opinions on this set? Any suggestions on how to calibrate? thanks
     
  7. GarryW

    GarryW Stunt Coordinator

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    Take a lok at the Sharpvision 55RPW5H or the 61RPW%h sets. They are the best value for the money![​IMG]
     
  8. JeremySt

    JeremySt Screenwriter

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    Re: Gary
     
  9. Kirk Gunn

    Kirk Gunn Screenwriter

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    True - keep the comments coming !
     
  10. GarryW

    GarryW Stunt Coordinator

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  11. JeremySt

    JeremySt Screenwriter

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    For my Mitsubishi WT46809, I ordered an $8 adjustable attenuator from radioshack.com. To help with red push. I'll update when I receive it. I want to get an accurate picture, but I dont want to put something in the signal path that will defeat the investment I have made in quality cables. (Transparent, Premium Component, 2 meter)

    rant mode >>I know alot of people think spending big bucks on cables is a waste of money, but I dont. Monster Cable is the McDonalds of cables to me.
     
  12. Don Morrison

    Don Morrison Agent

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    In most cases the red push on the Mits line is around 25% or a little above that. Manufacturers set this at the factory (along with the infamous "torch mode", let's not get started on that) to help the sets look more appealing under the bright fluorescent lighting akin to so many retailers. Why they don't let you fixed it simply on the 2001-2002 line, I don't know. I have a 46809 as well, and the attenuator is a very excellent solution to the problem, and cheap, considering what you spent on the TV. There are other solutions too, such as the I2C fix that a ISF cal. can get you, or you can even do this yourself (if you feel up to it). To find how to finely tune your set, and get the most out of the TV, visit hometheaterspot.com and work your way into the Mits tweaks section. There is a plethora of information out there.

    I too, have enjoyed my set, and using the fixed attenuator (which I build using instructions I found on HTS) The red on my color decoder is now within 5%. Flesh tones are natural, and color are more vibrant. It was the best $6 I spend on my HT.

    Good luck with the tweaking, and just enjoy the picture!
     
  13. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    Don,
    Every one of the 4 sets I've calibrated with AVIA had about 15% red push, and I just turned down color to compensate.
    I really didn't think I was missing much by doing this and sorta poo-poo-ed the whole red push issue.

    On my latest (Sony KP57HW40) set I found a tweak in the service menu that let me get push for all colors within 3% or so. This turned out to be the single best tweak I've ever done on any set. The non-reds really are noticeably more vivid and fleshtones more natural.

    I'm glad that Mits sets can also be tweaked in this respect, even if it does require a bit more effort. They do have good quality control and reliability, as well as easily user-accessible complete convergence adjustment.
     
  14. JeremySt

    JeremySt Screenwriter

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    I just popped on a fixed -3db attenuator. The variable attentuator looks kinda cheesy, and I just did not like the idea of adding it to my signal path. The fixed attenuator looks almost perfect, I have not yet check the AVIA color decoder check, but my guess is it's within 5%. A huge improvement. Lola's hair in RUN LOLA RUN doesn't look like its on fire anymore. It just looks red.[​IMG]
     

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