Best performing and best value sub drivers? (1 Viewer)

[Hank Frankenberg]

A current thread concerning 10" drivers gave me this idea:

What brand & model of sub driver is the best performing for a home subwoofer? To hopefully keep temperaments calm, lets have an up-front disclaimer that everyone's post will be an understood "IMHO".

10" sub driver:

A. What brand/model is the best performing, price no object?

B. What brand/model is the best performance/price value?

12" sub driver:

A. Best performance

B. Best value

15" sub driver:

A. Best performance

B. Best value

Assumptions: 1. Home use (not automotive) 2. Ported and sealed enclosures only. 3. So as to not get too detailed, please leave out HT versus music application.

Is this a waste of time, or will folks perhaps learn something new?

 

[ThomasW]

Well you obviously saw my thoughts on the other thread. It's hard to breakdown drivers by the catagories you created.

Take 12" drivers for example. Drivers like the Shiva, PE DVC 12" are both great values and good performers. The SW-12 will play louder, but I doubt that the actual sound quality is better, all other things being equal.

The Adire Brahama, or the 1203 are examples of a totally different catagory, that being high excursion. So they'll play much louder, but won't go as low.

The same situation occurrs when considering 15"s. There are the lower Fs lower, displacement one's, Tempest, DVC 15" etc. And the high excursion ones HE15, 1503, etc.

If a controlled shootout were performed I doubt very much that anyone could tell the difference between the many of these drivers were the playing on a level field.

For example if all the drivers were mounted in boxes design for optimium performance for each driver; and all were playing a 25Hz note at 90db, the differences in sound quality would IMO be insignificant, if not inaudible.

It's when drivers are pushed to the limits that the design differences become important. Want a solid 15Hz out from a HE-15 or 1503, well good luck. But a Tempest or DVC 15 will do that without problem. The flip side of this is want rock concert SPL's 24/7? HE15/1503 no problem, Tempest or DVC 15", no way.

 

[Chris Hoppe]

Well, I must have been hallucinating then when that HE-15 was making my slate concrete floor shudder like jello.

Sorry, I don't see what you're basing this opinion on. An HE-15 in the right alignment is going to outrun a Tempest at any frequency. Tempest is a great woofer at a great price, but it is not designed to run with the HE-15.

 

[ThomasW]

Chris

I have 2 HE-15's, and I know what they can do.

You missed the point of my post.

If the subs are running a 25Hz note at 90db output, I seriously doubt that there is a significant qualitative difference between the output of a HE-15 and a Tempest.

Raise the output level or lower the frequency, and yes the design differences will become apparent.

 

[Hank Frankenberg]

Well, I was afraid I'd open a can of worms. I should have clarified my intent, which is to provide lots of info for newbies so they can perhaps learn a lot from the thread. I envision it sort of like:
10":
A. Best performing. Driver A will potentially go lowest, driver B will potentially hav highest SPL.
B. Best value. Driver C is best value for going low, driver D is best value for high SPL.
Same for 12" and 15".
Okay to throw in some qualifiers, like "driver A in a ported xx.xx ft^3 enclosure will absolutely go lowest, etc. Also, give the current street price on each recommended driver in the Value sections.
If this subject is to broad and would attract too much detail/arguments, please let me know and I'll ask to have the thread deleted. I thought it might be a good idea, but if not, no problem

 

[Chris Hoppe]

Want a solid 15Hz out from a HE-15 or 1503, well good luck. But a Tempest or DVC 15 will do that without problem. The flip side of this is want rock concert SPL's 24/7? HE15/1503 no problem, Tempest or DVC 15", no way.

From this I assumed you meant that the Tempest is going to produce more SPL at 15Hz than a HE-15. Obviously, that's not going to happen.
But yes, if you ran both at the same level and frequency there should be no apparent difference. They are both low in distortion, especially at lower SPLs.
That's certainly not to say that they don't sound different though. Even if you produces two subs with identical frequency responses, they are still going to sound different. Variables like decay times (as seen in waterfall plots) and distortion don't show up much in steady-state measurements...
Sorry if there was a misunderstanding. I didn't mean to sound to snarky, but that floored me!

 

[Anthony_Gomez]

Here are my picks

10"

best value=BPD1001

best overall=either SV-10 or SB-10 ..sv-10 for box size and SB-10 for higher xo point

12"

Best value (tight budget budget)=1201

Best value lows=shiva

best value spl=bpd1203 (maybe brahman)

best SQ=TD12M

15"

Best value lows=tempest

best value spl=1503

best overal spl=HE15

best SQ=TD15M

18"

Best value lows=BP1803

best value spl=BP1803

best overal spl=BP1803

best SQ=Maelstorm

These are just my opinions from what I have read over year.

the only drivers I have actually owned are the 1503 and SV-10. There are other drivers that are close to the list, but I didn't include them for various reason (drivers such as the dayton line and SAL line).

YMMV

 

[ThomasW]

But yes, if you ran both at the same level and frequency there should be no apparent difference. They are both low in distortion, especially at lower SPLs.

Yep that's what I was saying
So people need to take their needs/wants into account when choosing a driver. 'Best' driver from a performance standpoint, is relative to the application, not necessarily to cost.
Anthony
How can you recommend drivers like the Maelstrom or Brahama that for all intents and purposes don't even exist aside from a few prototypes?
Sorry Hank, I think that this is just too broad a subject... And the tendency will be for people to just bench race using 'specs', instead of hands on knowledge.

 

[Jack Gilvey]

I'll reserve comment of the "best performing" drivers (lest I'm vociferously attacked by certain driver's supporters with a fervor that makes Al Qaeda seem like a bunch of Shriners), but I'll give a couple "best value" candidates (seems innocuous enough).
I think that the Parts Express Dayton 12" DVC is a great driver which has excellent output capability and works well in just about any loading or cabinet size. I use it sealed, Qtc=.65, but it works well in vented, and looks very good in smaller PR alignments,too. It's on sale for $99.90 'till Dec. 31.
The Blueprint drivers seem like they're just too much driver for the price. The 1503, by the accounts of those who've used them, and certainly judging by the Link Removed , seems to be at least the functional equivalent of the HE15, for quite a bit less money.
The 1803 gets my vote for the best value of any driver. $249 for over 6 liters of linear displacement. Yep, it needs a pretty big box, but it looks to be able to outdo just about anything on the planet.

 

[Anthony_Gomez]

How can you recommend drivers like the Maelstrom or Brahama that for all intents and purposes don't even exist aside from a few prototypes?

Thats easy.

SPL is shear displacement...and on that note, I can't thinkg of any 12"ers that offer that kinda of displacement.....strike that. I hear that some of the Eclipse units do as well.

As for the maelstorm, adire has a reputation behind it. the only 18inchers that I could think of for subwoofers (not counting pro audio "woofers") are the Maelstorm and 1803. The BPD may sound better, but I am not sure....I justused the fact that the 1803 needs heavy inductance EQing...and that is why I said what I said.

As I also said at the very bottom, I have not listened to most of them and what I wrote was based off of what I have read (and to an extent company history)

 

[Mike Dr]

since this is a thread for newbies, maybe u guys wanna mention what a HE 15, 1503, Shiva, etc are.. where to buy them from etc sure abbreviations and acronyms and trademarks are great, but for those who havent been around long, this is gonna look like a foreign language

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Well, I don't know if it's really a "newbie" thread, but I'm sure the search function would come in handy and turn up lots of info.