Directors Best Movie or TV martial artist? (1 Viewer)

[Tony Whalen]

Steven (I run like a girl) Segal!

I dunno.. I still don't think I would wanna piss him off. The man DOES hold a 7th dan in aikido. That's enough to make ME not want to annoy him. "non-fighting" martial art or not...

Curt... totally. When I see a performer who actually KNOWS what he is doing.. that's far more entertaining to me than pretenders and/or wire-fu stuff. (And btw, what martial art have you studied for 18 years?)

...now surely I can't be the ONLY Shô Kosugi fan around here...

 

[Tony Whalen]

Hmm... I was just looking at "Under Siege" on imdb, and naturally was drawn to the entry for Erika Eleniak ... can't say why for certain.

Found out that she recently (2001) bought a home in my city. Wonder where, exactly.

 

[Mike Wladyka]

non-fighting doesn't necessarily mean bad...i say non-fighting because there is few, if any punches or kicks thrown in aikido...aikido is definitely a valid martial art

 

[Tony Whalen]

non-fighting doesn't necessarily mean bad

Didn't mean to infer that it was.

 

[Mike Wladyka]

Sorry, about that Tony, i thought you were...

oh yeah and sho kosugi is awesome...

 

[Edwin_C]

van damme has little, if no martial art skill...he trained as ballet dancer! and chuck norris was the only white guy with grand mastership five years ago, not sure about now...chuck would destroy van damme...about form, speed, power, accuracy...chuck norris is sixty and just cuz you don't seem him doing as much kicking now doesn't mean that he could not crush van damme...van damme is stretchy and can kick high but lacks any real skill...look at his best movie, bloodsport...kicks look good to an untrained eye but if you notice his hip never leads his foot and also his foot is turned the wrong on his wheel...if your hip doesn't lead you will have no power...flashy kicks don't mean anything with out power...chuck norris has these skills and is why is better movie martial artist than van damme

i trained as a gymnast for a year, does that make me less qualified? ballet dancing helps you build up your leg muscles, and helps you with balance. if you have no balance and no weight control, then you teleport like no other.

i haven't even seen the old man in 10 years, everything i'm basing my thoughts on are tournaments and movies from 20 years ago. the only reason why he got his fame was because of the achievments he made as a white male. american people are always doing stuff like that, glorifying an object of their "own kind."

it's not all about your hips leading. that's quite the general statement. only time your hip would lead is when you do any variant of a round-house or any variant of a hook. from what i remember, he didn't seem to have any fault in it.

as somebody who trained in tae kwon do... chuck norris is the laughing stock.

btw.. mike, what martial arts did you train in?

 

[NicholasL]

Sho Kosugi! He's awesome! Enter the Ninja was one of my favorite films when I was a kid. His character Hasegawa was so cool. I too think Bruce Lee is the greatest, and as for Jet Li, he has won several national championships in China...although for form displays ("kata" as they are called in karate) and not for actual bouts. Fans of Jet Li owe it to themselves to watch his earlier films that have never seen the light of day in the States, such as "my father is hero" or "bodyguard from beijing."

i think steven segal is entertaining in his movies, not sure about his real life credibility, but one thing i notice is that he hardly ever, EVER gets hurt in his movies. I find that unfair.

As for Jackie Chan, despite what he has done for the HK film industry, HK's economy (including triad dealings) and what not, I think he needs to get out of movies. These days, all he sucessfully does is to promote and enhance the stereotype of chinese.

 

[Curt_Dennis]

Edwin,
Thanks for the reply. Sorry I assumed you had no training in the arts, that was my fault, but I based that on your first comments about VanDamm and Norris. I still feel you are way off base, but as with everything, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Just wish you could have met both men, because in ability and personality they are a world apart and if I was going to be in a fight, I know who I'd pick to be on my team.
As far as what I've studied. I started out doing karate when I was 10 and have worked my way up. I started doing judo and kali (stick fighting) when I was 18 to get my self more versed in different arts. Since if you are ever in a real fight, 85-90% end up on the ground, judo is a great art to know. I started doing kickboxing and shoot fighting somewhere between then and now. I also studied a system developed by Jason Winkle called martial concepts (combines 4 main areas) for 4 years while in Terre Haute. Check it out here: www.martialconcepts.com Since I just had my 3rd knee surgery on the same knee, I've been holding off lately on the sports of any kind. The one thing I'm most proud of is helping teach self defense to women though, and although I haven't done any seminars lately, I hope to start doing that at least very soon.
Congrats on the 15 yrs in Tae Kwon Do though...that's quite an accomplishment Edwin. Sometimes it's rough to put in the hours to train, especially when you're preparing for a competition, but it's something you can be proud of.

Curt

 

[Mike Wladyka]

Edwin C,

I also have been training traditional taekwondo (which do you do?), along with tkd there is hapkido (korean version of aikido, i am sure you know about) and also judo...i have been also dabbling in boxing lately...

i have been training for close to 6 years and i am testing for E Dan in december...and you say that the only time you use your hip is with roundhouses and hooks. First of all i said his hip didn't lead on his wheel (dorafrigi) which is pretty much a variation on a hook kick (hewligi), since a correct wheel kick looks very close to a spinning hook (dora hewligi), and not straight legged and molasses slow like i orginally said about chuck norris'...but i surely didn't think van damme's is correct. I agree that chuck norris is laughing stock but he could still crush van damme, who is much more a laughing stock than norris...this is the reason for taking chuck norris over van damme...i never said (or didn't intend to say) that norris' is good, i am stating that he is better than van damme...so my list of norris accomplishments isn't because he is my favorite but that he is better than van damme, but if i said i like norris or norris is good i surely didn't mean to.


Korean terminology is for edwin c so that he doesn't think i am just a chump without knowledge of taekwondo...

As for hip not leading all the time...it is true with more than just roundhouses and hooks...every punch, strong punch is started with a twist of the hips to coil lower body to transfer to upper body and eventually leading to a single point, your fist...hips lead in this situation do they not? and by lead i mean start the motion, and is the best way to generate power...

btw edwin are you a Sa bum nim yet? i am still just a lowly chok yo nim? oh yeah, what is your favorite form? have you heard of sipsoo? is your system palgae?

 

[Curt_Dennis]

Mike, we need to get together sometime and work out (especially since you do judo) and then relax watching a good fight movie! LOL!

 

[Mike Wladyka]

HunterP,

about bruce lee starting his own style...most people think it is very signficant but actually less important then people think...mostly everyone who is involved in martial arts doesn't take to one martial art...they learn about all martial arts...while they may stick with one style over another style, the latter style still effects their overall fighting style...Martial Artists tend to take different things from different styles since no style is all around the best...so bruce lee starting his own style is something that most martial artists do themselves to some degree...don't get me wrong bruce lee is still the greatest, but it is not the greatest mark that he left...although one can argue that up until bruce lee that no martial artist combined styles...it would be just hard to believe that in the thousands of years that martial arts existed that no one would have thought of the shortcomings of their martial arts...

"even if there was a single great style, without practice and hardwork it would mean nothing...don't blame the style for getting beat-up, blame yourself for not practicing and understanding the style before you"

Mike

 

[Mike Wladyka]

that sounds good curt, where are you in ohio? Canal Winchester? where is that?

 

[Danny Tse]

Hmmmm..... as someone who is completely untrained in any martial arts (Erika Eleniak would beat the crap out of me - see post #22 by Tony), Bruce Lee is without a doubt the best movie/TV martial artist. When you watch a movie of his, you can feel the power behind each punch or kick. BTW, Bruce Lee is also known as quite a dancer. Not a bad child actor either.

As far as I know, both Jackie Chan and Sammo Hung were trained as Peking (or Beijing now?) opera acrobrats. They may look like they know martial arts, but I seriously doubt it. As for Sammo Hung training the Chinese military....Sammo has always been in the HK, which was only returned to China by Britain in 1997. Quite an agile guy, though.

NicholasL....regarding Jackie Chan, you forget about his propensity for "affairs" and his illegitimate child. But perhaps that's another topic.

 

[Curt_Dennis]

Mike, Canal Winchester is down on the southside of columbus, and if I'm not mistaken Strongsville is up by Cleveland, but might be a fun overnight trip or a long day!
I do agree about mixing martial arts, and now most do it, and it's really hard to say before Bruce Lee, but most did not deviate from their discipline from what I have learned. Bruce Lee might not have been the first to do it, but his diffently became the most widely known and for that I give him total props.

 

[Tony Whalen]

Apprenticed to the China Drama Academy (or "opera school") by his parents at the age of 6, Jackie Chan was rigorously trained in music, dance, and traditional martial arts

His official site indicates the same thing, and adds that he also trained in weaponry, acrobatics and gymnastics. I wondered what martial art was taught, myself. Digging deeper, Jackie made a comment about the school and having dinner with his "Kung-Fu brothers & sisters"

As for Erika Eleniak, I'd let her beat me up... but only if she popped out of a cake first.

Goal #1: Find a REALLY BIG cake.
Goal #2: Locate her new Calgary address.
Goal #3: Ask REAL nice.
Goal #4: Hire lawyer to clear stalking charges.

 

[JohanD]

I have fairly limited martial arts experience..

But I would have to say Bruce Lee is one of my all time favorites..

he could whoop with or without a weapon.. (I loved his nunchuku sequences)

 

[Edwin_C]

btw edwin are you a Sa bum nim yet? i am still just a lowly chok yo nim? oh yeah, what is your favorite form? have you heard of sipsoo? is your system palgae?

my degree is high enough to be one, but i don't have the time nor the patience to teach (yea it kinda contradicts what i said above, but that was 3 years ago when i had more time and patience).

i hate forms. if i had to choose one, it'd be wun hyo... but i hate that one too. forms are only good for training. when it comes down to a real form, make it yourself.

nope, never heard of sipsoo, what's taht?

no, my systems not palge.. im training under itf not wtf. unlike wtf, there's no single name for half our belts... so i don't know what i'd call the system.

my opinion: chuck norris is the most undeserved martial arts superstar out there, and i stand by that opinion. even though he may have credentials, he just sucks. he's considered one of the best martial artists by many, yet.. he sucks!

 

[Hunter P]

One could argue that Chuck won his many tournaments by beating other slow white guys for the titles. One could even bring up Walker, Texas Ranger or the movie Sidekicks to prove how lame he is. I wouldn't argue against it.

But Bruce did respect him enough to feature him in their classic duel at the end of Return of the Dragon. I can't say he's a total chump--at least not early in his career.


One other reason why it's Bruce's world and all the rest are just renting it: Bruce is an icon . You can't say that about any of the other names mentioned.

Jackie Chan was marketed as the next Bruce in his early films. Every new star is compared to Bruce, including Jet. There are several movies about him. Just off the top of my head there's...

They Call Me Bruce
The Last Dragon
Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story

How many movies have been made about Jet Li or Steven Segal?

 

[JohanD]

Whenever I think about Chuck Norris.. I always think about that duel between him and Bruce that you mentioned.. Bruce even said that he learned some from Chuck.. and incorporated more varieties of kicks as a result.. (Read it from a book excerpt I believe)

 

[Mike Wladyka]

Edwin, you said i made a contradiction...i don't see it...both statements in your second quote from me pertain to the wheel kick...one about his hip not leading and the other about foot being the wrong way...so as for a contradiction i don't see one, but it is 7 in the morning...sorry not to answer your question about the gymnastics....but here it is, from what i know about van damme (tv documentary) and from what others told me (credibility of stories who knows, but are from people in martial arts and martial art film buffs as well)....he wanted to be an action movie star, so he took ballet where he learned to kick high and be flexible....then he moved to LA, saw a director in a restaurant, did a side kick and held it high in the air...got a movie deal, then another one...after martial artists took exception to him as not being a credible martial artist...he then began taking martial arts....it is not that i have a problem with ballet or gymnastics as a training tool...but promoting yourself as a martial artist from only taking ballet or gymnastics...well i take exception to that, especially as a martial artist...

Hunter, bruce lee is an icon...but some of the reasons for movies being made about is for the mysterious way in which he died...it builds up his iconic stature...


Curt, yeah we might have to plan a trip...strongsville is up by cleveland, right off of I71...

oh yeah one last thing i was sparring with my instructor last night and he whooped me...his wheel kick is definitely not a chuck norris

JohanD, you are right about bruce learning from chuck about pretty much kicking to the head...i believe chuck norris is tkd as me and edwin are...and i am sure we both know that tkd practioners loving kicking...especially to the head