Best High Def Projector (1 Viewer)

[Aaron_*P]

I'm getting a Infocus SceenPlay 7200 for $4200. Heard incredible things about it, seen it in a demo room and looked great. I'll have it in a few days and post how it looks in my not so perfect basement.

 

[ChrisWiggles]

How big you can go with a CRT varies greatly on the screen gain. CRTs won't have the lumen output of most digitals, so the bigger screen you get, the harder you have to drive the tube. Still, you can get pretty gigantic screens with a high-gain screen material and an 8 or 9 in CRT. For instance, the manual to my PJ is like 4-25 foot screens. I would never go that huge, but the thing is that you *can* go pretty gigantic if you want, though it isn't ideal.

As for Jason's post, it was pretty correct, except that I'm not talking about new CRTs, which cost 20-60k. Because demand for new CRTs are very low, almost all the projectors being bought today, especially for business-type applications are ALL digital. Everyone is selling off/throwing away their CRTs which may have cost 20K+ new. You can pick these up refurbished from one of the several techs who deal with them, for just a few hundred dollars, to a few thousand. So in comparison, a few thousand for an entry level digital just isn't even *remotely* in the same league as a few thousand for a used CRT which competes with digitals costing WAY more than 15-20K, even the 3-chippers.

For instance, an infocus for 4K might throw a decent picture, but comparing it to a used 8in EM focused CRT driven by an HTPC, which is easily done for about 4K, isn't even a fair comparison. This of course assumes PQ is an important factor to you...

As for maintenence, they are much cheaper over the long-haul, as you don't need to replace bulbs. Setup is a PITA, but once you get beyond that, all you need to do is reconverge every once in a while, only takes a couple minutes. And this is all something you can do on your own.

I just try to include this option as many people here at HTF don't realize it exists, as evidenced by this, and other threads.

CRTs, are by their nature analog, they take an analog signal to control the electron beam, essentially steering it across the screen.

"Instead they have 3 electron guns which sweep the screen at 60Hz (in the US) to draw an image."

In CRT projectors, there are three tubes, each with their own gun (one for R, G, and B). They don't scan at a set frequency, though 60hz would be pretty standard. They can pretty much take any resolution and scanrate you throw at them. Things are a little more complicated as to the ideal resolution to feed a CRT, as this obviously varies depending on the model(and tube size), and also heavily on the setup. Regardless, the CRT forum is the place for info.

In comparison to film, both technologies (in the home anyway) just don't get the resolution that film has, nor is DVD a hidef format, anyway. CRT is a lot closer to a natural ease of presentation of film, and has a stunning 3d effect that digitals just can't get. There is a quality of CRT that is quite special, which still makes it the reference to this day. I think a big part of it is the SDE that you get with digitals just makes the presentation very un-natural. In any regards, I'm just throwing this oft-forgotten option out there.

 

[Gabriel_Lam]

The light output of something like a Sony VPH-G90U (about as good as they come) 9" CRT based projector is as follows:

ANSI 350 lumens (150kHz:50Hz, 6500°K)
ASNI 280 lumens (15kHz:60Hz, 6500°K)
Peak White 1300 lumens, All white 500 lumens

So mount this 242 lb puppy on your newly reinforced ceiling in your COMPLETELY light controlled room with a high gain screen (make sure you're sitting in the high brightness part of the viewing cone), and you're set. Quality so good it'll make you cry.

 

[Jason_Els]

Again, mea culpa. :b When I said "brighter" I actually meant "higher contrast". Screen door, in my experience, has been a non-issue with DLPs I've seen but if others have seen it I won't begin to argue. I don't seem to see rainbows either. And yes, the color accuracy is generally much better.

 

[ChrisWiggles]

Any fixed-pixel display will have SDE to varying degree. Obviously, the better the pixel packing, the less the problem. Also, viewing distance (not absolute distance, but your seating in relation to screen size) affects how irritating SDE is. The least visible SD I've ever seen(on a digital device obviously) is Sony's SXRD. That has crazy good packing.

CRT's will suffer not from SDE, but from scanline visibility with too low a resolution source, or from a softening of the picture due to scanline overlap from too high-res a source. Hit the "sweetspot" and you've got a seamless, sharp picture. This requires some fiddling with resolutions to get things just right.

If Gabriel is saying CRTs are very-low output, such that you NEED a high-gain screen and have to sit centered, and you NEED a pitch black room, he is being misleading. The perception of the brightness of a picture is also very much based on the CR and ultimate black levels. I would not be so hasty to define everything with overly-simplified numbers such as brightness, resolution capabilities, etc etc.

 

[Gabriel_Lam]

I'm not saying you NEED a high-gain screen and have to sit centered, and you NEED a pitch black room, but simply that that's the ONLY way for the best picture quality (we are throwing around words like ultimate and optimum in our discussions).

No matter what display technology we're talking about, there are always compromises. ALWAYS, even the vaunted CRT.

To imply that CRT's will look the best in every situation to every person is false (I'm not saying you're implying that).

One of CRT's most important weaknesses is brightness, and most people will agree. If you prefer the bright, punchy picture, then this may be a source of disappointment for you without the perfect screen size & gain, room color, light control, etc. In general, the brightest displays are either DLP/LCD rear projection displays (70+ ft-lamberts) or plasma displays (some exceed 70 ft-lamberts). A typical tube TV will still give you 30-40 ft-lamberts. THX recommends 16±2 ft-lamberts.

There are plenty of LCD users who don't notice the screen door effect. There are plenty of DLP users who don't notice the rainbow effect. Are they still weaknesses? Of course. Do they matter to everyone? No.

So brightness may not be a weakness to you, and indeed, it's not for many people. Human eyes do not perceive brightness linearly. It's more of a logarithmic function. For instance 20 ft-lamberts will not appear 2x as bright as 10-ft-lamberts to us, maybe just 1.5x. So, with a properly light controlled room, even 8-9 ft-lamberts may look ok. 8-9 ft-lambers is roughly what a lot of older movie theaters put out. Turn one light and that becomes horribly washed out.

 

[ChrisWiggles]

Ultimate brightness comes into play for CRT, IMO, only if you are trying to do a VERY big screen. If you are installing in a non-dedicated, non-lightcontrolled environment, all bets are off for ANY projection setup. Any benefits that you might get from CRT are out the window, and your picture is going to suffer big-time.

You can push a CRT to be very bright, but you sacrifice life of the unit, as well as picture detail capabilities.

As for bright, sure a digital will throw up a bright, washed-out picture. But I would not call it punchy. Flat would be a better discriptor.

Again, the way you perceive the brightness of an image is not so easily defined with numbers. Anyone who has seen a dedicated room with a CRT wouldn't call the brightness lacking in the least. And for someone intent on finding bargains, I find your approach just a tad baffling. We're talking 20-60K equipment for a tenth that. The digitals that come *close* to that performance are in the same price categories. Comparing a 2-6K used CRT to a 2-6K digital is absurd. To a 15K S3, perhaps, but not much less than that.

 

[Parker Clack]

Aaron:

Congrats on the 7200 purchase. I have seen the 5700 in action and the picture was phenominal. Let us know what you think of it after you get it set up.

Parker

 

[Parker Clack]

Jerry:

Any ideas yet of what you have decided to buy?

Parker

 

[JerryPowell]

My dealer is trying to get me to go with a Demo Marantz VP-12S2 at a reduced price or the new Marantz 12S3 at full price. This is where I am at for the moment.

Anybody out there using either of these projectors?

Jerry

 

[ChrisWiggles]

The s3 is very very nice. I don't have first-hand experience with the s2. But the s3 comes very close to a very good CRT setup.