Best DVD player choice for my Elite 510 RPTV?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Todd Hochard, Mar 3, 2003.

  1. Todd Hochard

    Todd Hochard Cinematographer

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    My current Denon DVD-2500 player seems like it's on its way out, so I'm in the market for a new player.

    Considering my RPTV, would the Panasonic RP-91 still be a great choice? I really like the scaling feature, as my set locks on Full in progressive. What else out there scales? I have the portable Toshiba SD-P2000, and it "sorta" does. 4x3 discs are output as 4x3 in progressive, but it doesn't work correctly for LBX discs.

    I've also considered going with the RP-62 to save some money, and live without the scale.

    Any thoughts?

    Thanks,
    Todd
     
  2. Dan Clark

    Dan Clark Stunt Coordinator

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    I've also got the same set and am also really interested in recommendations. I was hestiating on buying the RP91 since it's getting a little long in the tooth. Thought Panny or someone else might have a good killer replacement coming out (with scaling) but so far, I'm not hearing of much. Regards, Dan
     
  3. greg_t

    greg_t Screenwriter

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    I believe that the Elite 510 locks into full mode when accepting a progressive signal. In this case, the 91 is a great choice as it provides scaling of non-anamaphoric DVD's, so they you can leave the player in progressive and your TV in full mode, and the 91 will scale the non-anamaphoric image to the correct proportions, and does a good job of it. I have two 91's and love them. It is a great player still.
     
  4. Todd Hochard

    Todd Hochard Cinematographer

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    Any other thoughts?
     
  5. ManW_TheUncool

    ManW_TheUncool Producer

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    The Philips 963sa might be a better choice than the RP91 if you only need proper OAR for the non-16x9 discs. This player has a pillarbox mode to frame the non-16x9 image w/ black side bars, but as of now, it doesn't scale to full size like the RP91. Hopefully, Philips will provide a firmware update to address this (and other issues).

    Meanwhile, the 963sa does offer Faroudja deinterlacing which the PR91 does not. And for audio format, it offers SACD instead of DVD-A, which may or may not be preferable to you.

    The price is comparable between these 2 players.

    _Man_
     
  6. Phil Nichols

    Phil Nichols Second Unit

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    Todd,

    I have a 610 and use a Denon DV-3800 with it for incredible images. I just switch to interlaced mode on-the-fly through the 3800's menu and scale non-anamorphics using the 610's excellent zooms - it just takes a few seconds to do this. X10's have outstanding deinterlacing chips anyway (not quite up to the Si504 chip in my 3800 or the Faroudja chip in the Pany's - but close), so running a good DVD player in interlaced mode is not a big loss in PQ at all. BTW, the deinterlacer in your 510 is superior to the one in the RP91.

    I even watch old 1.33:1 (4X3) movies using interlaced so can I turn them into widescreen using Natural Wide mode in the 610. The 3800 is expensive, but is built like a rock, does superb sound, and throws out the most liquid, noise-free, 3D-like interlaced and progressive images I've ever seen outside of $100K HT setups at shows using external $25K & up video processors. However, I did spend many hours getting the 610 and 3800 precisely optimized for each other.
     
  7. Todd Hochard

    Todd Hochard Cinematographer

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    The 3800 is a little above what I'm willing to pay, especially considering that it doesn't scale.

    I'm considering going on the hunt for a Panasonic RV80 interlaced player. These were known to have a good interlaced output, and with the PureCinema doubler built in, I'm not missing much. It's the main reason I bought the TV.

    Todd
     
  8. Phil Nichols

    Phil Nichols Second Unit

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    Todd,

    The RV-80 should be an excellent choice, according to all I've read on it. Just use your 510's great deinterlacing for everything! This would definitely be better than downgrading to RP-91 deinterlacing. However, the RP-91 in interlaced mode may equal the RV-80's interlaced PQ ...... I don't know about this one way or the other.

    Maybe you can pick up an RV-80 on eBay?
     
  9. greg_t

    greg_t Screenwriter

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    The 91 in progressive mode is better than the 510 Pure cinema I line doubler. And the 91 will do a better job of scaling non-anamaphoric images than using an interlaced player and using the Elite's stretch modes. You can get the 91 now for $350 and up, and it is a great machine that should bring out the most in the Elite. If you don't want to spend that kind of coin on a player, rest assured that your set has one of the best line doublers on the market and the best stetch modes too. It will do a great job. It's just the 91 will do a little better.
     
  10. Ravi Chopra

    Ravi Chopra Auditioning

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    I went through the same thing a couple months ago. In the end, I decided to get a Panny CP-72. I wasn't able to find a great player with both scaling and Genesis/Sage/Faroudja performance. What I have found is that the Faroudja-equipped Pannys not only have best-in-class progressive performance, but also have truly-great interlaced ouput. I've been happy so far just switching back and forth as need be.

    The players with the next gen Faroudja chip may have it, but for now, this is the best compromise I was able to find.

    -Ravi
     
  11. Todd Hochard

    Todd Hochard Cinematographer

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    If someone would do a full implementation of the FLI2300, I'd be all over it.

    Maybe I'll wait. I can always use my portable as a backup.

    Todd
     
  12. Rajeev_s

    Rajeev_s Stunt Coordinator

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    I think Panny CP-67k is on sale at Amazon for $129 and so is RP 62.
     
  13. Phil Nichols

    Phil Nichols Second Unit

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    greg_t,

    "The 91 in progressive mode is better than the 510 Pure cinema I line doubler."

    This is not the case. The Pio Elites utilize one of the finest built-in line doublers in the world ......... just under the Silicon Image (Denon 3800/9000) and Faroudja (some Pany's) integrated circuit chips with regards to progressive scan performance.

    Please checkout the Progressive Scan Shootout 2001 results here:

    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-b...rch&articles=4

    The Pio Elite 510 RPTV scored at the top (look at the bottom of the spreadsheet), tying the RP56 with an 87. The RP91 scored a medium grade 60 on progressive performance.

    My 610 scales 1.85:1 and 2.35:1 non-anamorphics perfectly using it's two zoom modes designed for these two ratios. It's non-anamorphic widescreen images are fantastic - if you feed it with a top notch interlaced signal through component cables (not S-Video cables).
     
  14. greg_t

    greg_t Screenwriter

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    Do you know this from experience or just from what a few reviews said? I'll be picking up my Elite 530 tomorrow with the Pure cinema III line doubler, and I'll be hooking up my RP91 to it. I'll let you know which is better on my setup. the Elite 510 has a great doubler, the best among RPTV. However, I doubt that it's stretch modes are good enough to make a non-anamaphoric dvd through interlaced output look as good as the 91's scaling ability using it's progressive output and leaving the Elite in Full mode. Again, I'll post my impressions as soon as I get my elite up and running tommorow.
     
  15. Phil Nichols

    Phil Nichols Second Unit

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    Greg,

    Stacy Spears and Don Munsil know about DVD players. The Shootouts are done by them. When they say a player has problems deinterlacing, it does. I read many, many RP91 posts by owners where they complained about combing before I passed on it for my 610 last year. I see nothing wrong with non-anamorphics zoomed to their proper AR on my 610, and I assume the X30 series does as well. I do not see "scan lines" or any "jaggy lines" when zoomed using Pio's outstanding zoom modes. Many players with the Faroudja or Silicon Image chips deinterlace better than the RP91 does. Plus several players now have superior video DAC's, video noise processing, and audio DAC's over those functions in the RP91.

    The 530 is a superb RPTV, so you might not want to use the RP91 just for it's scaling (which you use the minority of the time for non-anamorphics) and thereby give up the better PQ from other players that you would be getting the majority of the time (for anamorphics).

    Just my 2 cents. [​IMG]
     
  16. Dan Clark

    Dan Clark Stunt Coordinator

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  17. Vern Sharp

    Vern Sharp Extra

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    Okay time to chime in here the 510/610/710 scalers work very well. I've used it many times on my 610. But the set has a bit of the chroma bug just like the DVD player that I had did,(DV-37)!Watch a non anamorphic movie with deep reds in it and tell me otherwise? I really didn't see a huge difference using either the RP-91 or using my 610's scaler, don't believe everything you see in print.I'm very happy with my RP-91/Elite combo.

    Vern
     
  18. Phil Nichols

    Phil Nichols Second Unit

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    Dan,

    I make 1.85:1 non-anamorphics fit my 610's screen with the "Cinema Wide" zoom mode and I make 2.35:1 non-anamorphics be the correct aspect ratio on my 610's screen with the "Zoom" zoom mode.

    The RP-91 does scale well while leaving it in it's progressive mode. With any other player you have to switch it to intelaced so you can scale in the 510/610 with Cinema Wide or Zoom. My point being that if you don't get the RP91 and instead get a player with better deinterlacing for top enjoyment of all anamorphics with some other Faourdja or Silicon Image player on progressive, then you also still get top notch scaling and deinterlacing of non-anamorphics too by going through the extra minor steps of switching the player to interlaced and setting a zoom mode on the 510/610.


    Vern,

    The 510/610 cannot have a chroma bug because the chroma bug comes from the DVD video stream digital decoding operation. This is not going on inside a 510 or 610 so it's impossible for it to be created by a 510 or 610. However, perhaps the deinterlacer in the 510 or 610 can "comb" occasionally (unlike Faroudja or Silicon Image DVD players), which you could mistake for the chroma bug.

    I see no chroma bug and only extremely rare combing when feeding interlaced to my 610. My DVD player creates neither, so I'm chroma bug and comb free when feeding progressive from it to my 610. You will see combing from a RP91, even though you may love it's scaling.

    BTW, here is a typical yesterday's post by a person less than happy with RP-91 deinterlacing:

    "I have a RP91, and my XP30 will be here early next week. I got the XP30 because the deinterlacer on the RP91 is much worse than the one in my HS10 (which is very good, BTW-I'm a little surprised how good).

    So next week I'll do a comparison between the two. The RP91 looks terrific in interlaced mode, but I'm pretty disappointed in progressive with the unit. And unfortunately the scaling options are available only in progressive mode..."
     
  19. David Judah

    David Judah Screenwriter

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    As good as the Elites are, Todd, I still think you'll be better off getting a good progressive player. Remember there's going to be some resolution loss because of the extra conversion if you're going to have the TV do the deinterlacing.

    Also remember that the RP-91's biggest weakness is with video based material, so with film based DVDs, I would still expect the overall picture to be better with the 91(or any good quality progressive player for that matter)over the Elite.

    Good luck,

    DJ
     
  20. Vern Sharp

    Vern Sharp Extra

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    Phil, Thanks for the clarification my mistake. I do see it(combing) occasionally and it bugs the heck out of me knowing that for the price we all paid for these sets it still does it! I seem to notice it more when watching OTA programs. I love the set when it's playing back anamorphic discs, which is why I bought it to begin with. As far as which player works better I don't care because I'm happy with the RP-91 which will be getting replaced eventually because of something better down the line. If we were that knowledgeable at this hobby we would be making the players and not bashing every single unit that comes to production.


    Vern
     

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