Ben-Hur Four-Disc (1 Viewer)

[DeeF]

The first disk holds the first half of the movie, and the second disk holds the second half, just like the Gone With The Wind set.

So they can have as high bit rate as possible, I guess.

 

[Dane Marvin]

Due to the length, the film is spread over discs one and two. Just like the GWTW Four-Disc CE




Count me in with those who aren't too concerned about this color issue. $24.99 is too cheap to pass on with all those supplements plus the proper OAR.

 

[Patrick McCart]

One thought...

Since all 4 sides were opened up, less pixels make up one section of the picture. Just as an example, an 100x100 area on the old DVD would take up less pixels on the new DVD because it extended the image.

Perhaps we're finding one of the drawbacks of going full 2.75:1 instead of the 2.55:1 framing intended for the film.

 

[TonyD]

wouldnt that only be on a front projector?

it would be on a smaller area on a rear or fixed screen.
since it would be just as wide but shorter in height.

 

[JackKay]

p.s. Gary love your site, it's Web Pages like yours that keep Home Theater in 'continuous quality improvement'. Damn I sound just like my employer 'Boeing'.

 

[Brent Avery]

Eventually I'm sure the dust will settle on this "issue" - but one thing is certain - after viewing the orignal release,( I picked the chariot race as a reference point ) it just did not come across as well as the new CE does. Yes, the CE is perhaps a tad warmer than one might desire but the orignal definitely comes across as too much on the "cool" side and somewhat faded as well. At least, that is the impression I got. Colors are just more vivid - metallic objects are much better rendered. I was really struck by how good the blacks were reproduced,and how great, as an example, the four horses that Messala raced looked. I was also impressed that the garmet that Pontius Pilate wore had a sheen to it missing in the original and Hugh Griffiths' had stripes on it that were not as readily apparent before, so in many respects there is more detail evident. If one can view it on a 100 + inch screen and enjoy it that must say something for this dvd. We know that overall Warner tries to do the best they reasonably can and I for one would like to hear what they had to work with before jumping to conclusions - it might just be close to they way it is supposed to look.

 

[Cassy_w]

I'd allow myself to be used sexually for a day if I could see this film in 70mm.

Alas, how often is this film shown in 70mm?

 

[Danny_N]

I said in real life . Those pictures you posted are very nice but look just as cold as the old release of Ben-Hur.
When I compare the two sets of screencaps, it looks like the picture on the old DVD was filmed on a sunny but cold winter morning, while the new DVD looks like it was shot on a sunny summer afternoon. I prefer the warmer look.
I can't wait to watch the new SE on my FP and see the chariot race properly framed.

 

[ScottR]

But what about the softness and detail?

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

Scott, you'll have to decide for yourself, but in motion, only the color difference was really noticeable. The differences in softness and detail will only likely be discernable if you freeze the frame and do close up side-by-side comparisons.

If you are not bothered by the color I think you will absolutely love this transfer. For a film nearly fifty years old with perhaps a less than ideal original 65mm source, and then being compressed using MPEG2 with sub 7mb/s average bitrate, the result is still quite impressive.

BTW: With this film’s 50th Anniversary less then three years away, perhaps Warner will have yet another treat for us? I wouldn’t be surprised if Warner re-releases it in theaters, or at least produces new 70mm prints for a limited special re-release.

 

[PatrickDA]

I noticed in reviews that they haven't mentioned the
documentary on William Wyler? Is it apart of the collection
or was it taken off for some unknown reason? I've also
picked up on this happening more often with the 'Deer
Hunter' disc and 'Titanic' set.

 

[ScottR]

I guess I'll pick it up...I was just concerned after seeing the blowup of Joseph..in the first screen cap, you can see beads of sweat on his brow, but it is smeared over in the second one. Does anyone know where the version with the biblical lesson booklet will be sold?

 

[PeterTHX]

People complaining about the "softness" need to realize that since the overall picture is smaller (read: NOT zoomed-in) that very fine detail won't be as apparent as before.

This is exactly why some providers "zoom in" on some 2.35 material, to show what they think is a better detailed transfer.

So what is it guys? OAR and slightly less sharpness? Or zoomed in and "more detailed"? Put ME in the OAR camp.

 

[Ravi K]

Is the decrease in sharpness proportional to the decrease in detail?

 

[TedD]

Nope, not a chance.

The first thing I noticed is the serious mis-registration issues with the color red on the transfer.

It started in the main titles and continued with various degrees of visibility throughout. As a matter of fact, if you look at the crosses in the final screen cap at Cinemalaser, you'll see the issue as well.

http://www.thecinemalaser.com/dvd_20...ce-dvd-img.htm

Just to help here are some screen caps:

http://webpages.charter.net/tvdias/BenHurReg.png

Look at the right edge of Charlton Hestons robe against the dark background.

And for those who would say that it's minor, here is what it might look like when viewed on a large front projection system:

http://webpages.charter.net/tvdias/BenHurReg_2.png

and another:

http://webpages.charter.net/tvdias/BenHurReg_3.png

There is really no point in transferring from a 65mm print if the studios can't do any better than this.

These screen caps are direct from the video decoder for the first one with the second and third resized and cropped with Photoshop.

What I see on the screen is very similar, but the scaling by ffdshow and VMR9 tend to eliminate the lines in the red shadow.

It could be from sloppy setup of the telecine, I suppose.

Or a problem with chroma delay (although it appears to be red specific) somewhere in the production video chain.

Note that ther is no chroma delay inherent in the decoders used to capture the images as verified by test patterns from DVE Pro.

I guess the studios still haven't learned that a large FP is the only way to insure adaquate quality control.

I would suspect that this may contribute to the softness some are reporting, although I have to say that I see grain in the image after it has been upscaled which indicates pretty good HF response.

Ted

 

[StevenFC]

I'll go with the new version. The light looks more natural--more "sunshiney". I'm happy with the old presentation mind you, but it does look overly bright and maybe a tad too sharp. Just a matter of taste I guess. Although the extra picture information is what really sells it for me.

I'll have to watch the new one and see what I really think.

 

[ScottR]

WHOA! That registration on the crosses is seriously bad!!!! What is that? Yikes. I wish I hadn't even looked at this thread.:frowning:

 

[DeeF]

Oh, this is just the saddest thing I've seen in months. I was so looking forward to this disk.

So, they put it together using safety seps, eh? Which had shrunk differently.

P.S. King of Kings looks quite amazing on DVD, as good as high-def (almost). Though Ben-Hur was shot in a different process, one hoped it would look as good, from 65mm elements.

So sad.

 

[TedD]

It doesn't really look like a differential shrinkage issue since the red is offset to the right over the entire frame EXCEPT at the very bottom. It almost looks like either the telecine sensors were misaligned, or someone ran the signal through some sort of "enhancement" process that delayed the red component of the video more than the other colors.

Really strange. I have seen this in lesser amounts on the occasional DVD transfer, but very rarely and never this bad.

Ted

 

[ScottR]

Is there any chance this could be fixed? I mean, if Kiss Me Kate can be fixed....I guess I'm really upset because everytime this is released, it gets screwed up somehow.....I've almost given up hope that I'll ever see a pretty solid representation of Ben-Hur. And I'm not spending good money just because of the extras.