Behringer Feedback Suppressors and SVS AS-EQ1 Equalizer (1 Viewer)

[RIIDL]

Behringer Feedback Suppressors and SVS AS-EQ1 Equalizer - Which one is better???


Would these equipments are capable of preventing my sub clanking without sacrificing the volume performance?


I just bought a new SVS PC12-Plus 2 weeks ago, and been testing it - watching movies (Inception, The Pacific series, Saving Private Ryan, Star Wars pt3, etc...), and listening to music - R&B, Smooth Jazz, Urban Beat... And I love this sub!..


Before I made the decision buying the PC12 Plus, I bought Polk Audio PSW 125 from a retailer because it was on sale. My room size is 15' x 12' with opening to the kitchen and a hall way on the side. I thought the sub was great. But I got curious from reading a lot or reviews and comment about SVS so I decided to buy the PB12 NSD on the next day. Then I was very impressed with that compact SVS. It was smaller than the PSW125 but the sound had much better punch and very controlled bass. I kept them both for 2 days testing them in my house then I decided to return the Polk Audio. But there was problem with the SVS PB12 NSD, I think I needed much bigger version of it. And that's why I end up buying the PC12 Plus.


Though there are still times this sub makes clanking sound when I watched the movie Inception and Saving Private Ryan... maybe I need to decrease the sub gain a little bit...

 

[Citizen87645]

What is this clanking sound exactly? If it's a sound of physical pieces smacking together, you are pushing your subwoofer too hard and risk damaging it.


Subwoofer equalization with the Behringer or SVS EQ is meant to even out the bass response of a room, so that whether it's 20Hz or 80Hz from the subwoofer, you are getting similar levels throughout the range. This doesn't affect your overall sub level being too high, which could be causing the clanking.

 

[Robert_J]

Originally Posted by RIIDL


Though there are still times this sub makes clanking sound when I watched the movie Inception and Saving Private Ryan... maybe I need to decrease the sub gain a little bit...

I haven't seen Inception but I know the explosions in SPR will test even the best subs. The clanking you hear is the voice coil hitting the back plate of the motor (magnet structure). Once or twice is OK. Keep doing it and your sub's voice coil will start to deform. Once it deforms, it will start to scrape the pole piece and the wire coils will start to unwind. By then you have basically destroyed the driver. Watch the video in the link and you will hear the clank noise at the end.


How did you determine the current "gain" position? How did you calibrate your entire system?


Cameron answered your question about the BFD, etc.

 

[RIIDL]

Thanks guys for the reply. I greatly appreciate your help.


Robert_J - Thanks for that you tube link.. It sounded much less compare to that and it wasn't as bad as the Polk Audio sub which was quite sounded like that... PC12 Plus handled it well on those intense shaking and created virtually almost life like earthquake in my room when I was focused watching Saving Private Ryan especially that last battle on the bridge... it was amazing experience...

Originally Posted by Robert_J /forum/thread/309215/behringer-feedback-suppressors-and-svs-as-eq1-equalizer#post_3785784

 

[Robert_J]

You are increasing your sub by 14db?!?! Yikes! A 10db increase is twice as loud (acoustic energy is measured on a logrithmic scale). To get twice as loud, you have to provide 10 times the power. So if the calibration sets the sub so it's amp is producing 20w most of the time, your adjustments mean that it is now trying to produce 400w of power most of the time.


You may have a placement issue and you are sitting in a null in the room response. You can determine this with a $40 Radio Shack analog SPL meter, a free spreadsheet and some other free software.


When I built my subs, the bass was boomy and low bass was non-existant. I measured the in-room response and it confirmed what I was hearing. I had a 15db peak at 55hz and no bass at all around 20hz. That's when I used the spreadsheet macro to simulate BFD changes, I flattened the in-room response to where it was flat from 100hz to 17hz. Then I used my receiver's calibration system to set the levels and this time my sub's level was moved up about 10db from where it was before. It had been "looking" at the loudest frequency when setting levels.

 

[David Willow]

If you ran Audyssey and it set the sub to -15, your sub is turned up too loud. Turn the volume knob on the sub itself down and try again.


Your original -10 is okay.

 

[RIIDL]

Originally Posted by David Willow

If you ran Audyssey and it set the sub to -15, your sub is turned up too loud. Turn the volume knob on the sub itself down and try again.


Your original -10 is okay.

I called Denon Tech Support before and asked them why there was no sound coming from my new sub (Polk Audio PSW 125) after I ran the Audyssey autosetup. And they told me the same thing, I need to lower the actual volume of the sub to 1/3 while running the auto setup. And I did, but it still have same result. So either I increase the receiver output level or increase the volume of the sub which was on that case the sub volume was already on 100% and it still not performing as I expected.. That's why I decided to buy the SVS..


My old sub was Precision Acoustics 10" 150 watts and never had any "problem" with the Audyssey setup....

Originally Posted by Robert_J I flattened the in-room response to where it was flat from 100hz to 17hz

- could you please explain more about this. thanks..

 

[RIIDL]

Originally Posted by Robert_J


You may have a placement issue and you are sitting in a null in the room response. You can determine this with a $40 Radio Shack analog SPL meter, a free spreadsheet and some other free software.

I checked the availability of that item here in Canada, but I only found one store carrying them which was the same store I bought my SVS. It is 50 minutes drive from my place.


I found this item from Circuit City, I'm not sure if they are the same:

http://www.thesource.ca/estore/Product.aspx?language=en-CA&catalog=Online&category=SoundMeters&product=1219799

 

[David Willow]

Just keep in mind it is impossible for Audyssey to balance your speakers when you sub is turned up to high. It can't be done manually, either. A setting of -15 means the receiver can't cut the volume any more to make the sub play at reference.

Also, (and this is extremely important), if you turn the volume up on the sub and you use Audyssey Dynamic EQ, you could damage your sub. Audyssey depends on the sub being properly calibrated. When you change the setting on the receiver, Audyssey can adjust. When you do it on the sub, Audyssey has no idea you did it and assumes you didn't.

 

[Robert_J]

http://www.svsound.com/questions-faqs.cfm#meter


That's the meter you need if you are going to give this a try. It is a well known meter with widely published correction values.


Combine that with free software and you are off to a good start.

http://www.pvconsultants.com/audio/eq/peq.htm


You will need test tones. I picked a tone generator and created 0db level sine waves matching the frequencies in the spreadsheet. I burned the .wav files to a CD. Set up the meter on a tripod and play the CD. Write down the reading on the meter for each tone. Once you get through all of the tones, enter them into the spreadsheet. Apply the correction values. Look at the graph. Is it flat? Use the simulated parametric EQ to try and flatten it. Get the simulated response like you want it and enter those values into a Behringer Feedback Destroyer.


Room EQ wizard does the same thing and graphing is instant. The learning curve for the software is steeper. I found the manual method cheaper and faster.

 

[David Willow]

To add to Robert's post, the purpose of Audyssey on your receiver is to automate this process. Audyssey will attempt to make your room as flat as possible (with a slight curve in the upper frequencies). Check out the Audyssey Guide linked in my signature for some tips to get the most out of your setup.


The one thing that occurred to me is you may be so used to overblown bass that when you hear the SVS (setup somewhat flat with Audyssey), it may seem like something is missing. You will not be able to make your room sound like a night club with this setup. I would encourage you to setup your speakers properly and listen for a week or two. See if you don't start enjoying the sound. When it is setup correctly, you shouldn't even notice the sub until it is called upon (like a big explosion). It should blend in so well that you will have no idea if the sound is coming from the front speakers or the sub.

 

[RIIDL]

Thanks for the advice guys!


It seems to be a lot of work to be done to make things right... I can imagine myself looking like a ghostbuster guy or some sort of a mad scientist metering all the sound in my room and my wife will go nuts!!



So, lets go back to the original question of this thread:

I noticed there is a huge gap of price difference between the BFD and the SVS AS-EQ1 what are the other features that the other one have?

 

[David Willow]

BFD is a parametric EQ while the SVS device uses Audyssey EQ. The BFD will address several frequencies while the EQ1 will address thousands. IMO, the SVS device has no equal (at least as of right now).


Having said that, I'm not sure either would help you. I believe you need to move your sub around to find the sweet spot. Then run Audyssey. If you cannot hear low frequency effects without turning up the volume, you no doubt are sitting in a null. The best solution is to move the sub. Keep moving it until you find the best location (turn off Audyssey first).

Without turning my SVS PB12 Ultra/2 up past reference, I can shake the entire house.

 

[Robert_J]

The BFD is designed for live audio use when feedback from microphones is a problem. Someone got the wild idea to use it as a parametric EQ.


Using Room EQ Wizard and a MIDI connection, you can do a setup as fast as any other auto calibration system. But it also has the ability to be manually set up. That method is cheaper since it really only requires a $40 SPL meter from Radio Shack. The only advantage the BFD has is the memory banks. You can set up a room response curve as flat and save it to memory 1. You can set up a 2nd room response curve for music (boost the 40hz range so you can feel the bass drum) and save it as memory 2. You can run the sub hot for showing off to friends and save it as memory 3. A quick turn of the dial on the front of the BFD will take you through all of the different memories.

 

[RIIDL]

 

[RIIDL]

That is the rough drawing of my HT/family room. It is not to scale. Especially that blue person sitting on the couch.


Those green items are my speakers: FR front right, FL front left, SW subwoofer, etc..


And those red letters are the possible positions I can place my subwoofer. My sub was originally placed on “a” position. I moved it to “f” position and worked well with my sub volume 10% lower than my previous setting. The problem is that position is very awkward for the room.


The positions I will prefer to place my sub are on a, b, c, & d. I will determine which ones have the best. But I would need some help on setting the subwoofer phase degree setup for every position. I don’t exactly understand how you would know which one is 180 degree. As far as I know, if I’m not mistaken position a, b and d are all phase 0. Please correct me if I’m wrong.


Thanks.

 

[Robert_J]

Since you have an auto calibration system on the receiver, you leave the phase on the sub set to 0. The receiver will add delay based on distance from the sub to the mic so that all speakers will be in phase.


Place the sub in each location and run the calibration routine. Note the sub's setting on the receiver. Move the sub and run it again. When you have tested all location, look at the different sub levels that you wrote down. That is where you need to put your sub. Run a final calibration. Enjoy.

 

[RIIDL]

Guys, I think there is a problem with my Denon receiver...


I replied on this thread:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/forum/thread/307641/subwoofer-set-up