Behringer Europower 2500: OK for Tumult?

Discussion in 'Home Theater Projects' started by Tom Rosback, Nov 21, 2003.

  1. Tom Rosback

    Tom Rosback Stunt Coordinator

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    Any feedback on Behringer Europower 2500 power amp?

    I'm considering one for a sealed box Tumult I'm building. Everybody seems to love the BFD, but haven't heard much on their amps.

    The specs are couched in an intereting way, as the 2 x 1200 watt output power is only specified at 1 kHz (.1% THD), and the frequency response is specified 10 dB down from full power. So you can't tell how much output this amp will have at low frequencies, where the power supply is taxed the most.

    So, does this amp have the balls to drive a Tumult?
     
  2. Kyle Richardson

    Kyle Richardson Screenwriter

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    This is a new product so I think that is why there has not been a lot of comments about it.

    Bridged Mono Mode at 8 Ohm, 20Hz - 20Khz at .1%THD is 1300 watts.

    Bridged Mono Mode at 4 OHm, 1Khz at 1%THD is 2400 watts.
    They do not rate this at 4 ohm full bandwidth.

    So looking at those two specs we can only assume what the power would be at full bandwidth at 4 ohm and I'd guess its probably around 2100-2200 watts. Either way, it will put out more than what the Tumult is rated at RMS so it will be plenty for that driver.

    BTW, most pro amps are rated at 1Khz so its not just Behringer padding the specs.
     
  3. Tom Rosback

    Tom Rosback Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks Kyle,

    I'm used to the standard FTC ratings consumer amps have to post....xx watts from 20 Hz to 20 kHz at less than xx % THD.

    I guess, barring no other comments, for $350, I'll be the guinea pig!

    Since I have a separate equipment room, I'm not even concerned about the fan noise.
     
  4. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Tom,

    Definitely let us know how the amp works. For $350 if you can drive a Tumult with it I think it would be a helluva deal.
     
  5. Frank Carter

    Frank Carter Screenwriter

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    Where is it available for $350?
     
  6. JimPeitersen

    JimPeitersen Second Unit

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    Frank,
    Ebay has them for between $350-360 shipped. Almost all the pro audio etailers have them (if in stock) for about 349.99.
    Musiciansfriend
    Samedaymusic
    123music
    Zzounds
    etc.
    Even though people claim that they are QSC RMX "clones" they may be worth the money for sub amps.

    Tom,
    Do let us know what you think of them.
     
  7. Mark gas

    Mark gas Second Unit

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  8. Tom Rosback

    Tom Rosback Stunt Coordinator

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    Ordered this morning, along with a BFD, free shipping to boot. Still under a grand for the driver, amp, and BFD, including shipping for all of it.

    I'll definitely give everybody an accurate unvarnished view of this piece. Only problem is, I don't have anything from Mackie, QSC, etc., to compare it to.

    I'm now looking to borrow some 2 ohm loads or a 4 ohm load so I can run this thing through it's paces. Going to be tough to find a 1 kW load! Maybe a couple of toaster-ovens in parallel. 2kW into 4 ohms is 90 Vrms, so this is not as wacky as it first seems. I'll take my English muffins lightly toasted, please. [​IMG] Kind of puts blown drivers in perspective, doesn't it?

    I'm sure the fan and heatsinks aren't sized for continuous sinewave, though, so I will be very careful. I've got a MLSSA system, which I can use to measure response and distortion, and I'll look around at work to see if we have an oscillator laying around someplace.

    Box building starts tody or tomorrow. Woo HOO!
     
  9. Jerry Parker

    Jerry Parker Stunt Coordinator

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    I got my Europower 2500 Last Wednesday from pssl. The amplifier is very powerfull. I checked the user manual and the FTC power ratings at 4ohm stereo are 650w x 2 20hz to 20khz .01%thd. The 1khz power ratings are like 100 watts more.

    Bridged into 4ohms I don't see any reason it can't do more than 2000 watts for short periods of time.

    I currently don't have a subwoofer (sold mine) but hooked up to my Pispeakers 3pi theater series (1" compression driver and 12" woofer) I get around 115dB at 2 meters from the speakers when playing music (hearing protection is a must).

    It does a great job of driving speakers, and Im sure its equally impressive at driving subwoofers.

    One complaint with it though is that when I turn the power switch off, the unit will continue to play! It seems like the filter capacitors in the power supply are not discharged, and it takes over a minute for the amp to power down. I talked to Behringer tech support though and they said the amp was messed up, so pssl sent me a new one. It should be here early next week.
     
  10. Luis Cruz

    Luis Cruz Stunt Coordinator

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    Hey,

    I have a question for Jerry. Is the fan on the 2500 loud? Like if it were in the same room as all your other equipment would it be loud enough to distract from your listening experience? I'm just wondering as I'm starting to look for a nice amp to drive my SVS 25-31CS+.

    Take care and God Bless.
     
  11. Chuck Bogie

    Chuck Bogie Second Unit

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    The real question...

    Can you weld with it?
     
  12. Allen Ross

    Allen Ross Supporting Actor

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  13. Jerry Parker

    Jerry Parker Stunt Coordinator

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    Luis:

    Yes the amplifier is kind of loud. I plan on replacing its fan with something a bit quieter though. Honestly though, if you listen to movies at a pretty loud volume, I doubt you will even notice it.
     
  14. JimPeitersen

    JimPeitersen Second Unit

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    Tom and/or Jerry,
    How is your preamp/receiver doing driving it to "full" output? I think that it is rated for 1.4V for full power, isn't it? Just wanted to know if you were having the same problem that some guys are having with pro amps. Thanks,
    Jim
     
  15. John_MackieBass

    John_MackieBass Stunt Coordinator

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    wow...great deal!!!! I paid 419.95 shipped for my mackie 1400i. That 2500 is cheaper and puts out nearly twice the power!! CRAZY!

    I'm very curious to see how it performs under some extended stress. Does it come with any onboard crossovers/subsonic filters or the like?
     
  16. Stephen Hopkins

    Stephen Hopkins HW Reviewer
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    For those with the 2500, do you think a 1500 would work well with a single AV12 and possibly a Tumult on down the road? A single channel even should be enough for the AV12, and the claimed 1400 bridged at 4ohm should still be enough for a Tumult even if only 75% true, correct?

    Thanks [​IMG]
     
  17. John_MackieBass

    John_MackieBass Stunt Coordinator

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    Id like to get my Mackie hooked up to a Tulmit...1400...
     
  18. Tom Rosback

    Tom Rosback Stunt Coordinator

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    Behringer 2500 First Imppressions

    Overall fit and finish are very good. The two piece chassis is a stamped sheetmetal pan, 2mm thick, with a separate 1mm thick sheetmetal cover. Paint quality and fit are very good. All nomenclature is silkscreened and of very high quality. The amplifier is assembled in China.

    I popped the lid and the first thing I noticed was the cover screws are machine screws. This is a nice touch, as I've seen many amplifiers put together with self-tapping or thread rolling screws. 13 screws hold on the cover at the edges, with four additional screws securing the heatsink tunnel to the cover.

    Mains voltage connection is by an IEC standard power connector and mating 14AWG 3 wire grounded mains cable.

    Speaker connections are through Speak-On’s and beefy nickel plated binding posts that, as shipped, are hidden under an easily removed Euro-nanny cover.

    http://home.mn.rr.com/hometheater/Be...s/image001.jpg

    Popping the top reveals a nicely laid out amplifier of uniformly high build quality. All printed wiring boards are double sided 0.063” thick FR-4 fiberglass epoxy, with solder mask and silkscreen. All components are through hole. Solder quality is very high, with good wetting and clean fillets throughout. Small signal resistors are axial carbon film, power resistors are radial wirewound types. There is a mix of radial film and non-polar electrolytic capacitors used. High current connections are made through discrete Fast-On connectors. Small signal connectors are pin and socket types, with a mix of ribbon cable and discrete wire terminations. All small signal connectors are secured with a clear adhesive, probably hot melt. PWB’s are supported by threaded standoffs.

    Power Supply
    A 6” Diameter 3” high toroidial power transformer is secured to the bottom chassis with ~ 3/8” steel bolt. From Toriod International, this transformer has a single tapped primary winding for 100/120V operation. There is a large MOV across the transformer primary to kill power line spikes. Nice. A 15 Amp resettable thermal breaker on the rear panel is in series with the front panel mains switch.

    Four separate 39V-0-39V center-tapped secondaries feed four bridge rectifier modules that are heatsinked to the bottom of the chassis. Four 12,000 MFD 63V filter capacitors on each amplifier board complete the power supply. No load voltage across the filter caps is 56 volts, so they are running at 88% of their working voltage rating. This is typical.

    http://home.mn.rr.com/hometheater/Be...s/image002.jpg

    Amplifiers (one channel described)
    Each amplifier channel is on a separate PWB assembly. The amplifier is a discrete Class AB design using 8 bipolar power transistors per channel. Transformer secondaries, bridges, and filter capacitors are stacked in series, making the overall no load power supply voltage +/- 112 volts. This is typical of amplifiers with this power rating. The output transistors are operated in a series-parallel arrangement. Each amplifier output is protected by a 25A 250V 3AG ceramic fuse. As with most amplifiers of this type, a small aircore wirewound inductor is in series with the output lead to ensure high frequency stability with capacitive loads.

    The rated power at 1 kHz is 750 Watts into 4 ohms, which corresponds to a voltage output of 54.8 Vrms, 77.6 Vpeak. At 4 ohms, this is a current of 13.7Arms, 19.4Apeak. From 20 Hz to 20 kHz, rated power is 600 watts.

    The circuit appears to be similar to one used by QSC, but I couldn’t easily draw the topology without further disassembling the amplifier.

    Unlike a consumer amplifier, there are no output protection relays. This is normal for Pro amps. This means there will likely be turn-on and turn-off thumps, and that the amplifier will keep playing for some time after mains power is removed. This was noted by a previous poster, and is entirely normal and expected.

    The (-) speaker terminals are referenced to chassis ground.

    Bottom line, this is a well constructed amplifier, and it appears to be a great value. I would not have expected this level of fit, finish and component quality for $350. I am glad I am not in the power amp business.

    I can’t answer the inevitable questions like: How does this compare to the Belchfire 1400XXX ? I haven’t done a teardown on anything else lately. Be glad to do the same if somebody wants to bring their amp over.

    Well, that’s all for now. Back to Tumult project.

    I will run some performance tests on the amplifier after I get the box done.

    (edited to add photos and fix links)

    Regards,
     
  19. Bryan Michael

    Bryan Michael Supporting Actor

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    my adcom stays on after i push the off button and i can get a shutdown thump also from time to time.
     
  20. Jerry Parker

    Jerry Parker Stunt Coordinator

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    Great Review Tom [​IMG] One question though. You said there were no protection circuits on the output? What if the speaker leads accidentally short out or something? Yikes...

    JimPeitersen: I am not using my EP2500 to run a subwoofer, so it is actually being driven with my PC's soundcard with great success. With the gain on the amplifier set to full, and my soundcard's output set to full, I am able to clip the amplifier on some wources that are recorded rather hot.

    I would venture to say that most receiver's subwoofer line output would be enough to drive the amplifier to full output.
     

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