Behringer ECM8000 calibrated mic, (1 Viewer)

[Jones_Rush]

Does anyone know if this mic can be used with a computer RTA software through a regular sound card ?
Behringer say:
"The ECM8000 can be used with virtually any real-time analyzer with +15 to +48 V phantom power".
Also, the mic has XLR outputs, is there a way to connect it to a sound card ?
This mic only cost $79, and have a flat frequency response from 15hz-20khz. I think that if it is possible to connect it to a PC, then it's a much better choice than Radio Shack SPL Digital/Analog meters.
http://www.behringer.de/eng/products/micro/ecm8000.htm

 

[Dylan SJ]

I have one of these. I am yet to make up the phantom power supply so cannot comment on its performance. I will be using it with a PC based RTA like SpectraPlus.
I made up some cables to do the job but someone else may know of an XLR-1/8 adaptor?
Dylan

 

[Tony Genovese]

Try www.markertek.com for the appropriate cable.

 

[Jones_Rush]

Dylan,
you said:
"I am yet to make up the phantom power supply so cannot comment on its performance".
Can't such a power supply be bought ?
How much does it cost to build one, how do you do it ?
Also, the XLR outputs are there for a reason,
otherwise, they would have used a regular output,
won't using a XLR-1/8" cable somehow hurt
the mic performance ?

 

[Jones_Rush]

I think I found the XLR-1/8 adapter:
http://www.markertek.com/MTStore/pro...Item=HK%2D121M
On the other hand, I didn't see that the Behringer mic is coming with a cable, so why use adepter and not use this:
http://www.markertek.com/MTStore/pro...BaseItem=SC3XM

 

[Dylan SJ]

Jones_Rush
You can probably buy a phantom power supply, but I wouldn't know where from. A friend drew a circuit diagram of one for me on a sticky-note, so there obviously isn't a lot to it. There's input & output jacks, 2x 9v batteries and a couple of resistors and capacitors. He didn't write down any sizes though (and I can't remember them) I'll try and post an image of it later.
I like the XLR to 3.5mm cable (especially in 'phantom' purple), but you would still need to connect the phantom power supply somehow. Maybe use 3.5mm jacks on the phantom power supply and put it in line from the mic to the PC.
Dylan

 

[Jones_Rush]

Dylan,
Which XLR head should the cable connected to the ECM-8000 mic need to have, female/male ? , I think that the ECM-8000 has a male XLR connector, but I'm not sure...

 

[MichelF]

You need a microphone preamp to get phantom power to the mic and to amplify the signal before your PC sound card (the signal would be too low without the mic preamp). I am going to use this microphone with the SIA SmaartLive software running on my laptop and recently ordered the Furman AIS-10 mic preamp which has been specifically design for this task (I mean using it with a laptop), it's probably one of the cheapest mic preamp you can buy for this task if you don't plan to reuse one that you would already have.
Look at www.siasoft.com for more information (you can even buy the Furman online from their site). They have a user support forum on their site as well and you'll see that I precisely asked whether the Behringer ECM8000 would be up to the task and the answer was yes for most applications (it is however not a very high precision mic to be used for calibration purpose but it should be ok for room analysis).
I am still waiting for the delivery of the Furman preamp (I bought it from a supplier here in europe).
Hope this help.
Michel

 

[Jones_Rush]

MichelF,
What do you mean by :"not a very high precision mic to be used for calibration purpose but it should be ok for room analysis".
I want to accurately measure my room's response, If I have a peak at 40hz of 15db, I don't want my mic to show only 12db peak. for inaccurate readings I already have my Radio Shack SPL meter. The whole purpose of getting the ECM-8000 is to upgrade my ability to measure my room correctly, not downgrade it.
I don't get Behringer, they say that the ECM-8000 is very good for measuring a room's response, what do they mean by "very good" ???
Anyways, look at this Phantom power supply, will this be enough for the ECM-8000, or should I add anything else to it? (what is the difference between this and preamp ?)

It is called the PB23:
The PB23 and PB223 are for powering phantom powered microphones with either 12VDC or 48VDC. Since the units use a 100KHz switching power supply there is no audio noise generated. They have output pull down resistors so they will work with any mixer and have 2DC jacks so several units can use one adapter. The PB223 is identical to the PB23, except it powers two microphones rather than one.
PB23/223 Specifications:
Phantom voltage: 12V or 48V selectable
Jacks: Male and Female XLR
2: 5mm DC input jacks
Control: 12/48 volt selector switch
Power Input 14 - 18 VCD (included)
Size: PB23: 3" x 2.5" x 1.25"
PB223: 6" x 2.5" x 1.25"
Weight: PB23 - 1lb (.68 Kg)
PB223 - 1.5 lbs. (.68 Kg)

 

[Jones_Rush]

MichelF,
Don't you think that www.siasoft.com's prices are a bit high ? I mean $180 for the Furman seems like a lot of money considering that the Phantom power supply above will do the same work (except level control) for only $58 (you don't have to have level controls, the sound card mixer can do the work quite efficiently).
Also, their microphone (M40) looks exactly like the ECM-8000 only in black, while it's price is $100 more than the ECM...

 

[MichelF]

Hi Jones_Rush,
Yes, I see the phantom power supply. As you say, it is equivalent to the Furman minus the preamp and precisely it looks like the preamp is mandatory. The laptop mixer will not be able to give enough amplification (it appears the we are far away from what is actually needed, I've been told 60dB...). I explicitely asked this question on a pro forum (as I am not an expert myself and I am also willing to measure my room).
As far as the Berhinger mic is concerned I have been told that it should be good enough for equalizing a room, what it may not be good enough for is perhaps callibration of other instruments.
Look at one of the answers I got (I was mentioning I have the Behringer mic):
Michel, I think the mic you already have is adequate for most SMAART usage, and the salient requirements for any preamp used with it and SMAART are firstly the linearity, in freq and amplitude response, and secondly noise floor, and of course whether it will work with the mic and interface properly with a sound-card input. (phantom power for mic/what voltages and can the output be used single-ended (unbalanced card input.)
What you really *don't* want in a measurement preamp is any kind of processing at all. Compression, limiting, EQ, etc. Just plain gain.
Whether or not the preamp design is tube or solid-state doesn't really matter, but I would hazard a guess that today you would normally find a solid-state design to excel in these areas at a comparable price-point..
So, if you have other reason such as recording to purchase one of these preamps, and they meet the flatness/linearity you'd desire, and will work with the equipment used on both ends, sure, go ahead.. (which I believe they will)
But if the use is only for SMAART, perhaps something like the Furman AIS-10 preamp/interface box sold on this site might be a more useful and inexpensive choice overall..
And on top of that, almost any mic preamp or mixer with direct channel out you already have would get you going till you figure out what you really want/need.
Hope that helps, Len

 

[ThomasW]

http://www.audiocontrolindustrial.com/the200.htm

 

[Jones_Rush]

MichelF,
You said:
"The laptop mixer will not be able to give enough amplification (it appears the we are far away from what is actually needed, I've been told 60dB...)".
But I am not going to use a laptop, I am using a regular PC,
do you think that a PC soundcard can generate enough amplification to be used as a pre amp section with the Phantom power supply ?

 

[MichelF]

Jones_Rush,
IMO, using a desktop PC or a laptop should not make any difference if you use a typical sound card in you PC.
Michel

 

[BruceD]

I located a calibrated wand microphone and a pre-amp at the following site for about a $100, and the guy is really great (I'm not connected in any way, just a satisfied user):
http://orca.st.usm.edu/~jmneal/preamp1.htm
I actually ordered the microphone assembled with a calibration diskette. I built the pre-amp and since it is battery powered, I can use my notebook PC and the mic without electric power cords.
I loaded the calibartion diskette into my ETF acoustic software for my notebook PC
www.etfacoustic.com
This software does room frequency graphs with RTA analysis and is pretty cheap. I'm starting to learn about what makes a difference in my room; like main speaker placement, sub speaker placement, subwoofer to main crossover optimiztion, etc.
BruceD

 

[Steve Kinkead]

BruceD,
Your link for the calibrated mic does not work anymore. Any ideas where jmneal might be found? I hope to find a calibrated mic and preamp for under $150.
Steve

 

[Dennis Kindig]

I have included a link to Eric Wallin's Audio DIY page. Eric was the original designer of the preamp and also found the microphone capsule for this design.
Jason Neal was offering the kit for a while but seems to be unavailable for the moment. If you go to the "Preamp2" section of his audio page you will find the preamp design with modifications developed by Jason Neal. For now it looks like the only alternative is to etch a board (the pcb layout is on Eric's site) or use perfboard.
I have purchased one of the Panasonic mic capsules from DigiKey and modified my RS dB meter per Eric's instructions with great results. It looks like I will be building the preamp soon as well. This looks like the only reasonably-priced alternative out there for a quality preamp.
Link Removed
Dennis
------------------

 

[BruceD]

Steve,
As Dennis said, jmneal seems to be gone, but Eric Wallin's Audio DIY page for mic and preamp is the same as the unit I built.
Link Removed
This mic/preamp combo plugs into the 1/4" mini-phoneplug line-in on my notebook. If I get a chance, I will compare it with my RS SPL meter (analog).
Also, I have the complete set of web pages (pictures of the construction) that jmneal had on his website, but I don't have anywhere to publish them.
BruceD
[Edited last by BruceD on August 06, 2001 at 01:41 PM]