Behringer DSP8024 Ultra-Curve Pro

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Jeffrey Stanton, Feb 26, 2003.

  1. Jeffrey Stanton

    Jeffrey Stanton Stunt Coordinator

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    Howdy Folks:

    I would like to state first of all that I am not a "Do-It-Yourselfer". I have neither the requisite tools nor the talent for that sort of undertaking. I think I fall into the "Pay Someone Else to Do It For" camp. (Thank you, Kyle...)

    In any case, now that the AV-15s are on their way, I'm gonna have to start figuring out how to use this DSP8024 for my Acoustic Visions subwoof. I've spent a bit of time going over all posts in the last year that I can find on BFDs, but didn't run across anything pertaining to this particular version of the venerable (?) BFD (see below)...

    http://www.oakwoodbroadcast.com/Proc...r-dsp8024.html


    I bought this version of the BFD rather than the standard DSP1124P because it has an "Auto-EQ" function. Just plug in the mic, push some buttons, and "off-to-the-races", so to speak. Or so it would seem, after briefly scanning the owner's manual.

    On the off-chance that I cannot completely understand and implement what I am to read in the owner's manual, has anyone out there had any experience with the Behringer DSP8024?

    Could anyone give me a brief rundown on the best way to connect this EQ in the scheme of things? I'm using a Yamaha DSP-A1 A/V amp, will be using a pro amp for the subwoofer and have a Pioneer pre-amp available in case it's needed. Also plan on getting the SVS bass box thingy as I bet dollars-to-doughnuts it's gonna be needed before this is over.

    About all I know about a potential subwoofer set-up scheme at this point is that I can either run the sub off the A/V amp's LFE output or MAYBE split a full-range signal from the tape out or possibly even the head unit(s).

    So I guess this has changed from strictly a BFD question to "What's a good way to hook up my passive subwoofer" question (my bad). Can anyone give me a brief rundown on what to plug into what?


    Thanks,

    J. Stanton [​IMG]
     
  2. Seth_L

    Seth_L Screenwriter

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    The DSP8024 isn't exactly a BFD. The BFD is a Behringer Feedback Destroyer. You have an Ultracurve 8024.

    I have both myself, but I only use the BFD to equalize the subwoofer. The Ultracurve can do auto equalization, but you need the ECM8000 measurement microphone. Also, it can not automatically set the parametric equalizers (which are the most useful part of EQ'ing your sub).

    Seth
     
  3. Wayne A. Pflughaupt

    Moderator

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    Jeffery,

     
  4. Stephen Dodds

    Stephen Dodds Second Unit

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    Yep, the best way to use the Ultracurve is to use the parametric Eqs to do specific frequencies, and then the Auto EQ afterwards.

    However, the Auto EQ isn't too useful for just a sub as it is full range, and the 1/3 octave settings may not be quite right.

    And there aren't as many bands of PEQ as the BFD.

    I suspect you'll get better performance than no EQ, but the BFD would be a better choice.

    Can you return the 8024?


    Steve
     
  5. Jeffrey Stanton

    Jeffrey Stanton Stunt Coordinator

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  6. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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  7. Jeffrey Stanton

    Jeffrey Stanton Stunt Coordinator

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    Stephen:

     
  8. Stephen Dodds

    Stephen Dodds Second Unit

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    You use the paramtric EQ options on the Ultracurve exactly like the EQ on the BFD. The link Thomas gave should have everything you need.

    The problem with the test tone is that it attempts to equalize full range, so you'll need to make allowances for that either when you do the test or afterwards.

    In either case, I'd suggest the first thing you should do is measure your room response. The easiest (and cheapest)way to do this is using the Radio Shack sound meter and a demo version of a program such as TrueRTA, ETF or SpectraLab but since I just remembered you don't have a computer at home forget that.
    [​IMG]

    You can get test CDs with test tones that you can measure manually, www.stryke.com has them abd Infinity make a disc and have an accurate SPL meter they sell for their RABOS system.

    Once you have the response, you starting fiddling.

    Steve
     
  9. Jeffrey Stanton

    Jeffrey Stanton Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks much for the info on where to start with the EQ process. I'm somewhere towards the bottom of the learning curve on this EQ business I'm afraid.

    I gotta get the subwoofer hooked up first, though. I presume the preferred method is to run the subwoofer off the LFE as opposed to running it off a full-range/externally crossed over signal. I'm anticipating problems because I've had a problem in the past getting the pro amp to drive a speaker when run off the LFE. Funny thing is, I could get the same speaker driven if I switched to a FULL RANGE output, but could get NOTHING off the LFE. Tried it with and without a pre-amp also. Tom V. at SVS suggested I might need one of their line amplifier doo-dads...I hope that's the ticket...
     
  10. ColinM

    ColinM Cinematographer

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    Some pro amps have bass filters (rumble filters, high pass filters) built in to reduce unwanted booms in the system. Verify that yours doesn't have that feature...

    Good Luck!
     
  11. Jeffrey Stanton

    Jeffrey Stanton Stunt Coordinator

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    Jumpin' Jehosaphat!....come to I think of it, that might very well explain why I had trouble getting any output from the LFE with the pro amp but could get something out of it when I ran a full range signal to it!

    So how then to verify that it does or doesn't have a danged bass filter on it? I got the amp on e-bay (oops) and all attempts to find the manufacturer or a manual have failed. It's a "Sound Code Systems" amplifier, out of Orange Grove, CA. Have tried directory assistance for that city and no such company seems to exist anymore.

    What about feeding the pro amp/sub a full-range output and sending test tones to the sub from the AV receiver to see if the output suddenly disappears somewhere under 100 Hz or so? (I think my Yamaha DSP-A1 has 90 Hz crossover for the LFE, and I got absolutely NOTHING from it last time I tried...however my Klipsch KSW-15 subwoofer works just fine off the LFE...)

    If that sounds like a good way to test for unwanted bass filters in this pro amp, what would be the best way to connect the pro amp to the A/V receiver in order to send the pro amp test signals?
     
  12. Javier_Huerta

    Javier_Huerta Supporting Actor

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    I own the 8024. Here are some tips, considering you'll be using it to EQ a sub:

    1) Wire the unit as it has been suggested before.
    2) Be sure to have the latest firmware revision (1.3). It should show up on turn-on. Otherwise, you won't be able to Auto-EQ.
    3) Place the microphone on your seating position. Height will be very important, since cancellation can occur on the vertical plane.
    4) Turn on the unit, and (this is very important) lower the level of the frequencies above your sub's crossover frequency !. By doing this, the test tone generated during the Auto-EQ test won't even try to equalize those frequencies.
    5) Auto-EQ the system.
    6) The feedback destroyer filters are actually a set of automatic parametric EQs. They have to be set to "Manual". If set to "Auto", they will try to "kill" any frequencies that seem to be resonating (such as flutes). These filters behave as parametric equalizers when set to manual, so you can raise / lower specific frequencies as with a normal parametric EQ.

    I think that's it. [​IMG]
     
  13. Jeffrey Stanton

    Jeffrey Stanton Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi Javier:

     
  14. Javier_Huerta

    Javier_Huerta Supporting Actor

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    Jeffrey, that's correct. During the 1960-70 period, Mad Magazine had a cover which showed either the Coliseum or some other roman building (can't quite remember) falling down while Alfred E. Neuman watched from afar. The building had "Quid, me anxius sum" on its facade. [​IMG]
     
  15. Jeffrey Stanton

    Jeffrey Stanton Stunt Coordinator

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    Hey Javier:

    I got an Auto-EQ loaded on the UltraCurve last night, and I think it's working. Got a couple questions though... The sub seems to be considerably less boomy than with the pre-EQ settings, it's just that when I set the EQ to "OUT" to check the difference the sub sounds the same as with the EQ "IN". When I take the EQ "OUT" shouldn't I get a non-equalized output to the sub? Have any idea what might be going on with that?

    Also, before starting the Auto-EQ, I turned the sub crossover all the way UP and set the volume on the sub at 12 o'clock (halfway). Is this how you would do it?

    One other thing: It was suggested earlier that I set the parametric filters FIRST and then do the EQ. But I think that was referring specifically to the BFD, not the UltraCurve, which appears to be a different beast. On the UltraCurve, how would you handle the parametric filters, would you set them before or after the Auto-Q?

    So far, this thing seems pretty cool...[​IMG]
     
  16. Jeff Ba

    Jeff Ba Auditioning

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    Hi, I'm new on this forum. I just wanted to contribute a totally different perspective.

    I have the beginnings of a decent home theater (B&K Ref 30, Marantz MM9000, Snell E.5mkII Towers, etc), but what makes my opinion different is that I've been a sound tech for live performances for several years. In other words, I've actually used the Behringer 1100, 1124, 8024, and a Sabine ADF-4000 PowerQ in a pro-audio environment for feedback suppression, EQ, RTA, digital delay, and other uses.

    A few years ago, like you, I used to drool over the features of the Behringer units. But then I actually got to use them, and I wasn't nearly as impressed anymore. I still use them (especially the 1124 for pre-assigned feedback/parametric), but they definitely have some major limitations. The Sabine is worlds beyond what the Behringer units can do because the Sabine is actually oriented toward professional use. But on the other hand, the Sabine PowerQ is $1300 where the Behringer 8024 is down to only $180 and the 1124 is $120. The Behringers have tons of compromises, but still basically work. I now can confidently say that anything either the 8024 or 1124 can do, the Sabine PowerQ can do better. But that's in reference to use in a live pro-audio environment, especially with finding and suppressing feedback, which you guys don't care about. It's really nice that you can view the EQ settings, the curve from the separate 12 parametric/feedback filters, and the RTA all simulatenously while making edits on the Sabine. The Sabine only has XLR, no 1/4", though. I'll have to experiment if my Sabine PowerQ can handle the low level voltage of home audio. I've previously only used it as an RTA when it's at home.

    Having just slammed Behringer, I actually agree with your use of the Behringer units in home theater because they're so dang cheap. It's hard to go wrong when they don't cost that much.

    The few times I used an 8024, it always defaulted to being "OUT" when first powered on. What was I missing? Did you get it to be "IN" at power-up? Maybe the version number was old on that one I used? In a live sound environment, I hated that you can't view the RTA at the same time as the EQ or feedback filters. It briefly cuts out the sound for a second while you change screens, which makes it useless for live performance edits, unless you buy a few - one for RTA, one for EQ, etc.

    Just for interest/drooling sake, Sabine also has a real-time adaptive EQ called the Real-Q2. But it's something like $1500. Again, it's ideally suited to pro-audio, but difficult to rationalize for home audio. But it's neat to see what's possible now.
    Jeff
     
  17. Jeffrey Stanton

    Jeffrey Stanton Stunt Coordinator

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    HI Geoff:

    I checked out the Sabine PowerQ/Real-Q2 and they are no doubt impressive. HOWEVER, before I spent $1500 on one of them to EQ a sub I would be spending that money on a better (or more expensive) subwoofer drivers, bigger enclosure, and a bigger or better amp. [​IMG] What's most impressive to me is the fact that the Behringer has the features it has and is $170 some-odd dollars! If the Behringer 8024 was significantly more than it is I seriously doubt I would be impressed AT ALL! [​IMG]

    Hey, is there any point in trying to use the XLR connectors between the Behringer and the pro amp? Aftet all, an RCA connector on the A/V amp is gonna is gonna be used to run LFE to the 8024, would it do any good to use XLR between the 8024 and XLR on the pro amp?
     
  18. Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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  19. Jeffrey Stanton

    Jeffrey Stanton Stunt Coordinator

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    That's what I suspected...never having used pro equipment before, I just did not know....[​IMG]
     

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