Behold, the true power of the Gamecube (1 Viewer)

[Sean Oneil]

MArio is a jumping and climbing platformer, always has been. Zelda is a quest and reward game with jumping and climbing. So much was the same between these games in a series (mario&zelda) because that is what Nintendo wanted. I really do not want to give an itemized list of the similarities between the games in the Mario and Zelda series, but rest assured that I have played them to completion ...including Mario 64 and Zelda OOT, and I know that there are more similarities than differences. Just the fact that the same characters are used over and over and over ad nausium is enough to turn me off. I like a little creativity in everything, and I do not like it when studios or development houses or publishers milk something for all it's worth. It is getting to be like 'Star Trek' where they just go on and on and milk a title for it's recognition while doing no justice to the originals, that is all I am saying. I do not mean to knock the creative teams behind these games, I just feel a little bit sorry that they were probably forced to stay within certain boundaries strictly to meet Nintendo's marketing adjenda. And I have had my fill of Mario and Zelda AND Donkey Kong (I have been seeing that ape since I was 8) and won't be interested in playing another jumping and climbing game with them in it. Please don't take an attack of a videogame series or character personally. It is just a game. The games may even be good, but the elements are too framiliar, and thus less exciting to me than something new and original.
[Edited last by Sean Oneil on August 03, 2001 at 04:24 AM]

 

[Dan Brecher]

I think a lot of the reluctance over the N64 was down to its pricing, and the fact that it was a cartridge based console at a time when everything was coming on CD. The descision to do it on carts I think certainly hurt them with the Nintendo 64. Had the Pokemon franchise not come along I think the N64 would have really suffered because it was really only a console that thrived on the support of it's loyal fans.
Absolutely the Gamecube is going to have to go beyond this, and I think it will do, hitting a core with the older gamer who many desire more games aimed at their level with titles like Batman, Eternal Darkness, Rogue Leader, Resident Evil, a Perfect Dark sequel and so on. I think the console will turn many heads of those previously dubious about the console, Nintendo this time round seem to be looking to provide and even platter of games for all ages and I think this will bring then a lot more success then the Nintendo 64.
I don't think it right to deem the "lackluster" sales of the N64 because consumers were put off by what would perhaps seem to be repetition of what they've already played before, because if you follow that logic, why do the two Playstation consoles thrive so well?
Dan (UK)
[Edited last by Dan Brecher on August 03, 2001 at 07:21 AM]

 

[Morgan Jolley]

I think that while some elements of the Nintendo franchises have been used over and over, that in itself doesn't make the games bad. Donkey Kong 64 was not good at all, and the action-platformer genre has been watered down because of its repetitive use since Mario 64. Nonetheless, that in itself does not make games bad.
Luigi's Mansion for GCN has different gameplay than the other Mario games (from what we know so far). Pikmin has a new style of a Nintendo game. Rogue Leader has a tried and true formula for a Star Wars flying sim. Who's to say that the same thing that happened to these games won't happen to Mario and Zelda? Nintendo might announce something spectacular at Spaceworld, but we'll just have to wait and see.
The N64 had bad sales because it had bad games. No developers wanted to make games on cartridges, some they didn't make games for it.

 

[Evan A]

I'm 22. By far the N64 is the most popular system among all my friends. Where can someone find the American sales numbers of n64 and playstation? I can credit Zelda with ruining my freshman year's first quarter. KILLED my GPA. But I never really got into my playstation.
Lets admit it. It is all subjective!
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Evan Adams
[email protected]
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[AndyVX]

I'd just like to further the 5.1 sound in Rogue Squadron 2 question. I don't understand how the game can "output" 5.1 without a Digital coax or optical output. Yea sure they can encode the game in it, but without the proper output, what's the point? It's just taking up processing power. With only analog audio output, the only chance we have is for Pro Logic sound.
Let's just say that they are using some form of DPL2. I really think that would be pointless. How many people are they honestly thinking that will own a DPL2 decoder in the console's lifespan? 1%?... that even sounds too high.
Anyways, anyone that knows more about this, can you please fill me in (and the rest of us)
Andrew
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ICQ# - 119869807
[Edited last by AndyVX on August 04, 2001 at 10:34 PM]

 

[Joseph S]

I can credit Zelda with ruining my freshman year's first quarter. KILLED my GPA.

You should have waited until Christmas vacation. I cleared it in no time flat then, with a few tips. The top archery level was almost impossible though.
I can't wait to see what gamecube has to offer I always liked Nintendo and haven't found much outside of sports games for my PS2.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

About the 5.1 on the GC, I don't know any technical mumbo-jumbo, but I do know that the specs aren't final on the console. They might have a special A/V cord that you can buy that does High Def and 5.1 output out of the same cord. Maybe there is an adapter. Nobody knows. Our questions will be answered at either Spaceworld or the launch, so hold tight for a while.

 

[Sean Oneil]

Morgan ...not to pick on you,
but if a console does not have the hardware ability to output DD 5.1 or Hi-Def, then no 'special cord' will change that fact. As others have stated, to do DD 5.1 decoding in software would require too much processing power to do feasibly while running a complex game engine at the same time. As for HD? sure ...It may be possible for the GC to output resolutions up to 720p or even above that -the only question is (this is where the power of the X-Box matters) if the GC could maintain any kind of reasonable frame rates and fill rates at those high resolutions, and would the systems GPU support output refresh rates on anything above 480p ?
If that ain't happening, then a magic cable wont make any difference.
That aside -I am sure that the games will look nice enough anyway on the GC. Too bad the system itself is an eyesore.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

I don't think the system is an eyesore. I think the PS2 looked cool, and the GC is just a tiny little box. The X-Box is butt ugly, with the green orb and huge size. The controllers are also butt ugly and have a similar green orb thingy. I think the GC is neat looking because its not as small as a DC but its not as wide as a PS2, its just tiny little box.
Also, the fact that the GC is as powerful as it is and it is so much smaller than the X-Box shows how well designed it is. It also has a feature or two the X-Box doesn't have, like the smaller discs and the no-loading feature.
As I said before, Nintendo has not announced everything about the GC yet. We have to wait until Spaceworld or the launch to find out how it does 5.1, and based on what different websites say, it does 5.1.

 

[Gary King]

Also, the fact that the GC is as powerful as it is and it is so much smaller than the X-Box shows how well designed it is. It also has a feature or two the X-Box doesn't have, like the smaller discs and the no-loading feature

Are we talking about consoles or cellular phones? Last time I checked, volume consumed wasn't a reasonable measurement of design quality.
And Gamecube games *will* have to load. I'm not sure what convinced you that "small discs = no loading," but c'mon -- give that some thought. There is a finite speed with which the Gamecube's mini-DVD drive can read data, and there is a specific amount of data that a game will need in memory in order to play.
Having a second pool of memory that can transfer data from disc independently of any CPU or graphics transfers is a clever idea (thus consuming no open pages); however, a CD(/DVD/mini-DVD) will have a significantly slower random access time and transfer rate than a hard drive.
Load times should be faster on the GCN than on the PS2, but reading 10MB from an optical disc will always be slower than reading 10MB from a hard drive.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Smaller discs doesn't mean no loading times, but the GC is so fast that the loading times will appear to be non-existant. I heard the E3 demo of Luigi's Mansion displayed this somewhat, but since it is incomplete, nobody knows how well it will work in the end. Nintendo has said that it will not have load times (I heard that the console boots to the game instead of to a menu like the PS2/DC/XB, and that the boot is less than a second or two). The GC also moves data in and out of memory faster than the PS2 or XB.

 

[AndyVX]

I'm sure that the Gamecube will have reduced load times, but I don't think they will be non-existent. Hell, even some games on the N64 had load times.
I think the Gamecube(depends on how capable the developers are though) has some way of caching data very effectively. Like, as the system is booting up, it loads stuff into ram, so it doesn't have to do it later (into the 16 MB A-Ram maybe) There will always be load times when you are pulling data off a CD...unless they figure out a way to get the transfer rates up like 100 times faster.
My brain isn't working properly right now, so all technical terms aren't coming to me...so I'm probably sounding like a moron in the above two paragraphs
Andrew
[Edited last by AndyVX on August 06, 2001 at 12:36 AM]

 

[Tom Oh]

I just bought a Jap PS2 to play FFX. I'll probably end of buying GC for Rouge Squadron. Damn those images look good. My wife already hates the fact that I have PS, DC, PS2, GBC & GBA. Thanks to PS2, I now have 3 DVD players. If I get Xbox, that would make it 4!
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[Morgan Jolley]

Counting my PS2, I have 5 DVD players (3 stand alone, a PS2, and a laptop). I want to get a GBA by the end of the year to play Mario Kart. I want to get FFX, but I don't have a japanese PS2 or the money for it, plus I don't know Japanese.

 

[Evan A]

everyone thought the controllers for the N64 to be ugly but I don't think they have been beaten yet in terms of comfort. The dreamcast controllers come close
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Evan Adams
[email protected]
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[AndyVX]

Evan,
Very true indeed! I have yet to hold a controller that has been more comfortable then the N64's. (it had it's problems though... analog stick was a peice of shit!) From the looks of the controller and what people have said that have actually held the Gamecube controller, it looks to be a winner in terms of comfort and functionality.
At first I thought the PSX - PS2 controller were very comfortable, that was until I played the system for long amounts of time (RPG games). I find with Sony's controller it is comfortable for about one hour, then my hands really start to cramp up on me.
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ICQ# - 119869807

 

[Camp]

PS2 controller were very comfortable, that was until I played the system for long amounts of time (RPG games). I find with Sony's controller it is comfortable for about one hour, then my hands really start to cramp up on me.

You're not the only one. I love how accessable every button on the PS2 controller is but it hurts after a while.
We need a controller thread!!

 

[Morgan Jolley]

The Nintendo 64 controller was light unless you added the rumble pack (which you don't need) and it was very comfortable and well laid out. The PS2 controller is very nicely designed, but it can cramp your hands. The DC controller is big and heavy, which I don't like. I don't see why its so big if the buttons were made for small hands.

 

[DaveF]

If anyone remembers the original Rogue Squadron, Factor 5 developed MOSFX (I think that's what it was called) which was kind of like Dolby Prologic.

Rogue Squadron combined with DPL2 sounds great! While not true 5.1 sound, I can hear Tie Fighters flying overhead, behind, and around me. Rogue Leader can only get better!
As for DD in games:
PS2 supports DD 5.1 in pre-recorded cutscenes.
X-Box claims realtime 5.1 mixing for sound effects
Gamecube is doing something to produce a DD-like effect, and does DPL.
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[Steven_V]

How can anyone say people are tired of Nintendo's games when Nintendo's software sales are UNMATCHED by anyone in the industry!
**Top 10 Publishers of 2000**:
publisher (software sales)
1)Nintendo ($955,169,820)

2)Electronic Arts ($435,493,079)
3)Activision ($332,803,304)
4)THQ Inc ($262,998,114)
5)Sega ($262,494,552)
6)Sony ($244,438,591)
7)Midway ($135,982,929)
8)Acclaim ($134,503,569)
9)Capcom ($124,124,609)
10)Infogrames Entertainment ($112,687,963)
source: TRST http://www.npd.com/
Bloodwake - Twisted Metal on water
Gotham Racing - Gran Turismo ripoff
Halo - Tribes ripoff
Nightcaster - Zelda ripoff
NFL Fever - Madden ripoff
Cel Damage - Twisted Metal ripoff
Azurik - Zelda ripoff
Fusion Frenzy - Mario Party ripoff
Oh, and here are some REAL http://www.evilavatar.com/redirected.asp?fromurl=http%3A//www.evilavatar.com/EA/News/CynicalCorner/M31283/
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