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Beginner system upgrade / guidance request (1 Viewer)

kalm_traveler

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Sam,

Sorry to keep bugging you with all these questions but I've come to respect your input quite a bit.

Another question for you if it's all right: Will Yamaha's YPAO auto calibration be decent enough or would you recommend an SPL meter + audio calibration disc of some sort? (if SPL+ calibration disc any specific suggestions?)Also, I can't get the final piece (subwoofer) for another month most likely - does a full audio calibration require the sub, or can I do it with the 7 main speakers first and just adjust the new subwoofer manually once it replaces my current cheapy sub?
 

schan1269

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You can rerun the YPAO.I think YPAO sounds the most natural(since it is parametric, the speakers don't end up "muffled").But..any AVR you choose will have multiple EQ. So you can do both.
 

kalm_traveler

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schan1269 said:
You can rerun the YPAO.I think YPAO sounds the most natural(since it is parametric, the speakers don't end up "muffled").But..any AVR you choose will have multiple EQ. So you can do both.
sounds good.Now I just need to decide of the side surrounds need to be elevated or not. With all the old setup I had those old bookshelves with the tweeter and midrange at ~7ft above the floor and did not like the sound... usually I didn't hear anything from them at that height.I cut their shelves down so that the tweeters were just a few inches above my seated ear height and felt that the sound was tremendously more enveloping that way... However now that I have 5 floor-standing towers I'm not sure if I should even bother trying to find something to raise the side surround towers up at all. The surround-back bookshelves are mounted on the wall about 6 feet above the floor but I don't have the AVR yet to see how they sound up/back there...
 

kalm_traveler

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Well,TV and final pair of towers came in last weekend - and I finished the semi-permanent light and sound blocking measures.Although you can see a small amount of very faint clouding on a full deep black screen, I can't see it under any other circumstances at all, and there is 1 tiny spot of very small flashlighting near the bottom left corner but again you can't really see it from the seating position unless a specific type of scene is being displayed and you are looking for it. Overall I'm really happy with it which I suppose is all that ultimately matters.Still running 5.1 but with all Yamaha NS-777 towers + old crappy sub, but it sounds better already. I'll be ordering the AVR this Friday (decided to stick with the RX-A1030) so next week I'll at least be up to real 7.1 with the NS-333's wall-mounted in the back and aimed and calibrated with YPAO.Subwoofer-wise, you said a single VTF-15H or Mk2 version will be plenty adequate for foundation-decimating bass? That is the last piece of hardware I need to complete this upgrade and should be able to order it within a month. I liked the idea of a fully sealed sub but thought it would be more handy to have the option of switching to single/double ported just in case.
 

Robert_J

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kalm_traveler said:
Sam,

Sorry to keep bugging you with all these questions but I've come to respect your input quite a bit.

Another question for you if it's all right: Will Yamaha's YPAO auto calibration be decent enough or would you recommend an SPL meter + audio calibration disc of some sort? (if SPL+ calibration disc any specific suggestions?)Also, I can't get the final piece (subwoofer) for another month most likely - does a full audio calibration require the sub, or can I do it with the 7 main speakers first and just adjust the new subwoofer manually once it replaces my current cheapy sub?
An SPL meter will allow you take it to the next level and measure just your sub's response. A step above that is getting a calibrated mic like the Dayton Audio UMM-6 and Room EQ Wizard (free software) is a step above that.

I needed it because my subs were very boomy when I adjusted them to sound good on movies. When I adjusted them to remove the boominess, they sounded weak on the extreme lows. After measuring their in-room response, I had a 14db peak at 55hz. With a $99 digital parametric EQ, I was able to tame my sub's in-room response so that it is + or - 3db from 100hz to 17hz.
 

kalm_traveler

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So the AVR arrived yesterday. I set the sub's volume to half as the owner's manual stated and somewhat as expected it set the sub volume too low I think.Or the sub just isn't very good (which is more or less a fact given it's advertised response range drops off sharply at 40hz).Anywho, it set the crossover point at 40Hz, which also was not a surprise since 5/7 main speakers can do 30Hz themselves.YPAO's default settings sounded ok minus basically not using the sub, but I went back in and tweaked them because the distance was wrong for most of the speakers, and it thought my little NS-333 bookshelves (surround back L & R) were Large for some reason. I bumped the subwoofer crossover up to 60Hz hoping that it would at least have something to do in this case.Not too worried since I still need to purchase the new sub (pretty sure I'm going with that HSU VTF-15H Mk2 unless it's still not available, the original version should do fine I would imagine in this 12x24x8 room), and I'll just have to re-run YPAO when that arrives anyway, but all in all I've been very pleased with the 7-speaker surround aspect of this new AVR. It seems to handle everything much better than the old Denon 5.1 receiver and having built-in analogue-to-HDMI conversion has been a blessing.Also of note, when passing a video signal over HDMI from my PC, the old Denon showed up on the PC end no matter what... but with this Yamaha, it's nice because if the TV is on the PC can actually see it (shows up as Samsung on the PC end), rather than only seeing the receiver.
 

Robert_J

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Anywho, it set the crossover point at 40Hz, which also was not a surprise since 5/7 main speakers can do 30Hz themselves.
In your AVR? Set it at 80hz. It doesn't matter if your speakers can do 10hz, setting the crossover at 80 and your speakers to SMALL will take the low bass load off of the receiver and put it on the sub.
I went back in and tweaked them because the distance was wrong for most of the speakers
Distance is set by phase and not actual distance. The receiver is making sure that all sounds reach the mic location in phase. You just messed that up.
the original version should do fine I would imagine in this 12x24x8 room
My room is 12x24x9 and I'm only running one of my two 15's. It's enough for 99% of people just not me.
 

schan1269

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Robert and I disagree on crossovers...(there is no right answer)Does this Yammy offer multiple crossovers?(the top model at least does...been shown in the room setup screen, but the manual makes no reference of it)
 

kalm_traveler

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Sam,

I will have to check again if it has multiple - as I recall there was only 1 'subwoofer crossover' setting.
Robert, while I understand the conventional setting of 80Hz for that intended purpose, I found that since 5 of the main speakers can push 10Hz lower than the dedicated subwoofer can, there was a very obvious loss of low-end by shifting 40Hz-80Hz to the sub. My hope is that by picking up that HSU subwoofer (which is rated down to about 18-20Hz), I can safely move a few octaves from the towers without losing anything at all.All in all I'm very pleased with this AVR, but am just that much more wanting for an up-to-par subwoofer now that everything else has been upgraded.
 

schan1269

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Look for my review of the Elite SC79.The final few posts show the multiple crossover in a top model Yamaha (it was a response to me saying Pio and Yammy need to start offering them).
 

kalm_traveler

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schan1269 said:
Look for my review of the Elite SC79.The final few posts show the multiple crossover in a top model Yamaha (it was a response to me saying Pio and Yammy need to start offering them).
Found it. I believe that was on a 3020, not sure my 1030 has the individual crossover points per speaker but I will double check tonight after work. Would sure be handy since the front 5 speakers are all more or less full-range capable, and only the rear surrounds are bookshelves...
 

kalm_traveler

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IMG_20141028_211437.jpg

Yeah my menu is missing several of the 3020 options including individual speaker crossover points
 

kalm_traveler

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bonus arrived a month late but I pulled the trigger today and ordered a new HSU VTF-15H MK2 after much consideration.

It's probably overkill for my setup and room, but I figure better to have overkill than something 'just adequate' right? ;)


Sam - I've got one final question for you regarding this if you don't mind: I've noticed the general rule for subwoofer setup is to first set it's volume knob at ~half for the AVR's auto-setup, and then adjust from there... however i hear rumors that half will be too loud on these HSU's... do you have any suggestions to that end?

Thanks again and Merry Christmas everybody!
 

schan1269

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kalm_traveler said:
bonus arrived a month late but I pulled the trigger today and ordered a new HSU VTF-15H MK2 after much consideration.It's probably overkill for my setup and room, but I figure better to have overkill than something 'just adequate' right? ;)Sam - I've got one final question for you regarding this if you don't mind: I've noticed the general rule for subwoofer setup is to first set it's volume knob at ~half for the AVR's auto-setup, and then adjust from there... however i hear rumors that half will be too loud on these HSU's... do you have any suggestions to that end?Thanks again and Merry Christmas everybody!
"Half is too loud on a Hsu"...Never heard that one.You want the gain control on the sub where you have the level in the AVR as close to "0" as possible.If that ends up 1/4. Great.If that ends up 3/4. Great.
 

kalm_traveler

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schan1269 said:
"Half is too loud on a Hsu"...Never heard that one.You want the gain control on the sub where you have the level in the AVR as close to "0" as possible.If that ends up 1/4. Great.If that ends up 3/4. Great.
so I may want to re-run YPAO a few times to get the AVR to set it's sub gain as close to zero as possible before fine-tuning to my liking at the sub itself?
 

kalm_traveler

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Finally have the new sub in - I'm still tweaking it by ear but so far I'm 8000% happy!

Had to rerun YPAO 5-6 times to try and get it to set the sub as close to 0dB as possible - the best I could do was +1.0dB, is that ok?

Dang HSU volume knob is extremely touchy - if you breath on it the volume increases 6dB I swear...
 

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gene c

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kalm_traveler said:
Finally have the new sub in - I'm still tweaking it by ear but so far I'm 8000% happy!

Had to rerun YPAO 5-6 times to try and get it to set the sub as close to 0dB as possible - the best I could do was +1.0dB, is that ok?

Dang HSU volume knob is extremely touchy - if you breath on it the volume increases 6dB I swear...
In 10+ years on this/these forums I've never heard anyone complain about over-spending on a subwoofer.

Like going from a Yugo to an F250.
 

kalm_traveler

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gene c said:
In 10+ years on this/these forums I've never heard anyone complain about over-spending on a subwoofer.

Like going from a Yugo to an F250.
yeah I can't imagine complaints other than structural damage :lol:

This HSU is a real beast in my little 12 x 24 x 8 room! Sam - on a slightly related note could I trouble you for your opinion on crossover settings?My gut feeling tells me that the Yammy 777 towers should be fine with a 60Hz crossover frequency since they are rated to 30Hz, but since I didn't/don't yet have room in the back for them I am just rocking 333 bookshelves on the wall which definitely can't handle bass.

My AVR the RX-A1030 seems to only have 1 universal crossover point, but i can set the FLR/C/SLR/RLR between Large and Small independently from each other.Thing is i'm not really seeing a logical options here other than have everything at Small and the crossover high enough for the 333's... because if I set the 777's to Large, I think the LFE channel will not have anything going on when I'm just listening to 2-channel music. Right?
 

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