Beef: Marantz 8300, SA-12S1, DV-12S1...

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Kevin C Brown, Sep 24, 2002.

  1. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    The Marantz 8300 weighs 14 lbs or so, has the chroma bug, and incomplete bass management, but goes for ~$1250 or so.
    I just came across a dealer willing to sell me a DV-12S1 for $1000. But looking on ebay, you can get them for $800.
    DVD-Audio/DVD-V/CD machine. Built like a tank. No bass management. (Personally, I'd rather have none, than incomplete.)
    There was also the SA-12S1. SACD/CD/DVD-V machine. The "brother" of the DV-12S1. Looks like about $1200.
    Both weighed 29 lbs.
    I think it was Secrets review of one of them, that said it didn't appear it had the chroma bug. And then maybe Secrets or a different review said that, looking at the insides, the DV-12S1 *could* do SACD too, but that it seemed like a marketing decision by Marantz to offer 2 players.
    My beef? Why go "backwards" with the 8300? Has the chroma bug, and less robust build quality?
    Makes me mad [​IMG], because I could at least live with the incomplete bass management, but for $1250, I expect a player that wouldn't have the chroma bug. But I've looked at them a few times and it really seems like a nice machine.
    Why am I asking this? My DV45a just arrived. Maybe I was expecting more, but 5 lbs 12 oz?
    I'm mad at Marantz. So close, yet (for me) so far away.
     
  2. ManojM

    ManojM Stunt Coordinator

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    The 8300 is based on the Pioneer DV-47 with an unchanged video section, thus the chroma bug, size, and weight. The audio section has been upgraded, and in my opinion actually sounds pretty good. Heavy weight does not necessarily equate to performance, although heavy build quality is always nice to have. Judge for yourself by listening to them, that's the only thing that matters.
     
  3. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    I know the 8300 is based on the 47a.

    I just don't understand why, if they already had the DV-12S1 and the SA-12S1 to use as templates, why use a Pioneer based player?
     
  4. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Kevin, I don't know why. I've said it before, but I detest when companies rebadge other manufacturers' components. To me, it's an act of laziness and shows a lack of ingenuity. The irony of it is that it is usually the more specialized manufacturers that offer more expensive components that rebadge. I simply have issues with expensive components that closely resemble cheaper components. Often times, the rebadged components carry over the minuses of the cheaper components, but of course, the rebadged components cost much more. Examples of my pet-peeve components:

    * Rotel RDV-1080: Now available for about $900-1000, but once sold for $1200 or more. The '1080 is based on the older JVC XV-D721BK/D723GD and it shows. I feel the '1080 is lacking a bit in build quality for the money. Furthermore, just like the JVC unit which it is based upon, the '1080 has no stereo analog outputs. It only has 5.1-channel outputs. How could a company like Rotel, which has roots in audiophile-quality stereo reproduction, not include stereo analog outputs on a component? What if you wanted to split the '1080 between home-theater and stereo systems for playback of DVD-Audio, as I do with my Technics DVD-A10 or as I do with my Sony SCD-C555ES for SACD? You can't!

    * Denon DVD-1600: A $500 player that is based on the older $230 Panasonic DVD-RP56. The '1600 is lacking in build quality given the $500 price tag, in my opinion. Also, like the much less expensive 'RP56, the '1600 has no coaxial digital output. How can a $500 player have no coaxial digital output?

    One thing was definitely gained by Denon rebadging a Panasonic component, admittedly. The '1600 does not show the chroma bug. Recall that the significantly more expensive Denon '3800 and '9000, both of which were designed in-house, showed the chroma bug out of the box. A software upgrade is available for early units, but perhaps the '3800 and '9000 are now shipping with the upgrade installed. In any event, for far less money, Denon avoided the chroma bug with the '1600 from the get-go.

    * Marantz DV-8300: As has been said, the '8300 is based on the Pioneer Elite DV-47A. While I don't feel the '47A offers the build quality that it's $1000 retail price warrants, the '8300 is similarly lacking, but at a higher price ($1500 retail). Then while charging more money, Marantz carried over the chroma bug in the '47A. I would have expected more from Marantz.
     
  5. Brian Fitterman

    Brian Fitterman Stunt Coordinator

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    Kevin, I believe both the Reference pieces that you spoke of are being disco'd and that is why they are so much cheaper now. The new list price is $1200 I think. I am not sure if Marantz is comming out with a new Universal piece in their Reference line or not.

    The 8300 is NOT in the Reference line, which is why it does not have the build quality of the 12S1. Not that it has bad build quality, its better than the Poineer line IMO, but not as good as the Marantz Reference line.

    I would hope, as does my dealer who was quite pissed that they came out with the non-Reference player first, that Marantz will suppliment the 8300 with a Reference Universal Player. There is Certainly a market for it.
     
  6. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    OK, I didn't realize that the SA/DV-12S1 were more "upscale" (Reference) than the 8300. Maybe there's hope then that they'd do a more expensive one.

    Keith- Good list. I had always heard good things about Rotel CD players, but a re-badged one raises an eyebrow...
     
  7. Doug_B

    Doug_B Screenwriter

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  8. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Doug said:

     
  9. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Doug, nevermind. I came across a thread here that describes lock-up problems with the '3800. It does not seem to be a serious problem, as newer units seem to have received a fix of some sort.
     
  10. Rich Wenzel

    Rich Wenzel Supporting Actor

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    i paid $410 for my denon 1600 as a replacement for my rp56, i got it just when it the stores, from an authorized dealer.

    i agree, the build quality cold be better, but I still say it is an upgrade in build quality over the rp56.

    Rich
     
  11. Doug_B

    Doug_B Screenwriter

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  12. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Doug, I understand your position. A few months back, I briefly toyed with the idea of picking up a Toshiba SD-9200 DVD-Audio player when Tweeter was blowing them out for $500. Although I had read numerous positive comments about the audio performance, there had also been a lot of talk about a transport problem with the '9200. While I am quite sure the '9200 is a better DVD-Audio player than my Technics DVD-A10, I had never had a problem with the 'A10 in over a year. In the end, I could not spend $500 on a player with a known bug that would replace a player that had never failed me. Like you, I saw myself using the '9200 and waiting for something to go wrong.
    The Denon '3800 is not cheap, so don't buy it until you are convinced that the lock-up problem is tied to a particular batch or batches and has been fixed. Besides, you might have some nice alternatives to consider soon. In case you haven't heard, Yamaha and Onkyo/Integra will be releasing universal players in the $1000-1200 range.
    By the way, the Technics 'A10 still has not failed me. [​IMG]
     
  13. Mike_Ch

    Mike_Ch Stunt Coordinator

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    Kevin,

    That is a pretty unbelievable price on both the DV-12S1 and SA-12S1, something like 30% of the original retail cost (around 3K). On any terms that is a bargain. The reference series players use different analog ciruitry, dacs and transport than the cheaper 8300. Sound is much, much better, though I am not sure of video quality. Marantz is owned by Phillips, and both companies are in the SACD camp, so its actually a step forward that they at least have implemented DVD-A, where other companies have not (and vice versa wrt DVD-A companies).

    Cheers,
    Mike
     
  14. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    Mike- I think the original MSRP on both players was $2500. I think the price drop is due to clearing them out (maybe in anticipation of new player(s)).
    I'm thinking, "smaller, faster, ... cheaper" ! [​IMG]
     
  15. Mike_Ch

    Mike_Ch Stunt Coordinator

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    Kevin,
    2.5K is an excellent price, I thought that us Aussies were getting a good deal on Marantz, but it seems not [​IMG]
    I agree about the smaller, the Marantz Reference stuff is a bugger to lift around [​IMG]
    Cheers,
    Mike
     
  16. Don Bingaman

    Don Bingaman Extra

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    Gentlemen,

    according to my local dealer, Marantz and Philips parted ways about one year ago....that may explain their re-badging of the Pioneer DV-47 / DV-45. The reference stuff might not be coming back......
     
  17. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Don, I would be surprised if we don't see reference equipment from Marantz. Remember that Philips-branded products were generally lower-end than Marantz-branded gear. Marantz represented the premium line. Plus, Marantz has a long tradition in turning out high-quality products. I would hope that Marantz would not abandon its tradition. Finally, Marantz is now affiliated with Denon, another company with a great tradition in audio.
     
  18. Mike_Ch

    Mike_Ch Stunt Coordinator

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    Didn't know about the Denon link, but I guess we learn something new everyday [​IMG]
    Marantz is actually coming up with more Reference series components: the new SA14v2 stereo SACD player, the SA17S1 multichannel player, PM17v2 integrated amp, PM14v2 and a matching power amp. Read about it here (translated by babelfish): Marantz new reference series components
    The 2 sacd players are due for release in Japan in mid-November, and the amps should be out soon. Not sure about the American market, but I believe the SA14v2 should be on your shores soon.
    Cheers,
    Mike
     
  19. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a Reference universal player then...
     
  20. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Mike, thanks for the information. I am a bit surprised that Marantz is coming out with a new stereo-only SACD player. The stereo fan in me loves it, but I am surprised nonetheless.
     

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