Beck "Sea Change" DVD-A anyone compare it?

Discussion in 'Music' started by David Scott, Dec 16, 2003.

  1. David Scott

    David Scott Stunt Coordinator

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    I saw the Beck Sea Change dvd-a at Best Buy today and was wondering if anyone had done any direct comparisons to the sacd version. The Beck sacd and The Flaming Lips dvd-a are my two favorite hi-rez discs to date, but I don't think I'll double dip to get the dvd-a version of Beck. The packaging indicated the Beck dvd-a contains I believe 5 music videos along with 88.2 5.1 mix, dolby digital etc. Anyone heard it yet?
     
  2. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    Nobody here bought the Beck dvd-audio?

    Maybe they should have remixed happier albums like Odelay or Midnight Vultures into surround instead. [​IMG] I own Odelay and Mellow Gold & while I think Sea Change is good music, it is kind of gloomy.

    LJ
     
  3. Michael St. Clair

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    I'm definitely buying it, even though I own the SACD. I haven't picked it up yet, though.

    I think Sea Change sounds great in surround but I also think all of his older stuff would.
     
  4. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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    I am hoping for Odelay and Midnite Vultures. [​IMG]
     
  5. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    Just came back from Pest Buy; the Beck disc was there for $14.99, with two in stock. I didn't see anybody fighting over them so maybe the first eighteen discs were already bought on Tuesday.

    And there are still a lot more CDs in stock there than hi-res discs--anybody else notice this?

    [​IMG]

    LJ
     
  6. Jeff Keene

    Jeff Keene Supporting Actor

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    Another guy that has the SACD who will buy the DVD-A. Mainly because my player is a better DVD-A player than SACD player. I love this album.

    Oddly, Odelay is probably my least favorite Beck album. Mutations may be my favorite. The Midnite Vultures CD doesn't sound that good on my system, so I'd welcome a re-master / hi-res release.
     
  7. robertLP

    robertLP Stunt Coordinator

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    Bought the DVD-A; in between songs my player (Pioneer 563) pauses & starts up again, as if it's trying to find a different area of the disc to read. Kinda annoying.

    Also, when I hit the "play all' button of the music video menu, it just plays the first video. Again, a little annoying.

    Notwithstanding any difference in sonic quality, it still seems to be a better value then the SACD single layer that sells for the same price of $14.99.
     
  8. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

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    My question is this: was this originally a DSD or PCM master?

    Dan
     
  9. Felix Martinez

    Felix Martinez Screenwriter

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  10. JimBarrese

    JimBarrese Stunt Coordinator

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    Has anyone decided which is better for this release: SACD or DVD-A? I want to get one, but don't know which would be better. The fact that the DVD-A only has a 88.5 sampling rate concerns me.
     
  11. Chris Tedesco

    Chris Tedesco Second Unit

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    Ok, I've actually compared the two and to me, they are very similiar. Now granted, my set up isn't the best in the world.

    Denon1802 with JBL 5.1 Surround.

    But I'd say my system isn't crud either[​IMG]

    My first listen was SACD and I was totally blown away by it. Sat and listened to it 3 times straight. This is one of the most agreesive surround mixes I've heard on SACD. A+

    But guess what, the DVD-Audio is right up there with it. I swear I can't tell the difference! I want someone here to disagree, I would like that just so I could listen and compare for differences.

    Now, I like the fact that the DVD-A has 6 new video's for this album, but it doesn't sound as good, even though it's in Dolby Dig. But I don't like having to turn on the T.V. to select stuff either.

    Jim, the 88.5 sample rate concerned me as well, not sure why it was done like that, but it didn't matter. Still sounded great!

    Either way you go, this is an awesome sounding disk. ...I think I'll go listen again. [​IMG]
     
  12. robertLP

    robertLP Stunt Coordinator

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    Yeah, I agree. I hate having to turn on the TV just to watch a video....
     
  13. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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  14. Chris Tedesco

    Chris Tedesco Second Unit

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  15. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    A lot of studios record in the 88.2kHz format to make it easier/more accurate to downconvert it to CD's 44.1kHz format.

    The following is a post I wrote on another forum regarding PCM sampling rates and how many people believe that past a certain point the number of samples becomes less important compared to other processes going on in your player.........

    ************************************************** ***********

    I've read many times now where many pros and magazine reviewers I trust have said that the biggest reason that formats with higher sampling rates improve sound quality is not really because of the increased sampling rate, but instead, that the DAC used to reconstruct the 1's & 0's into an analog waveform can use much gentler filters. Here's a summation of what I have read:

    The Compact Disc format uses what's called a "brickwall" filter to get rid of the PCM format's inherent noise. This filter is placed at @21kHz, right next door to the audible frequencies. This filter has to act quickly to keep the ultrasonic noise from entering those lower frequencies, which it does. But a ripple effect occurs from the noise slamming to a stop into this aggressive filter wall (figuratively speaking). This "ripple" bounces back into those lower frequencies, causing subtle but audible problems with cymbals, bells & other delicate high frequencies. And grain and other sonic nasties are born!

    Very high quality DACs--as in pro-level equipment or high quality consumer components--have very sophisticated filters to minimise or prevent audible problems as decribed above. But they are quite expensive. And adding to this expense is the fact that many of these still use the multibit conversion system, the best type of digital-to-analog converter for PCM. Multibit types use 16 (or whatever the word length needed) precision resistors to provide the neccesary voltage steps needed to create the analog waveform; these resistors have to have very accurate chemical tolerances; additionally, they are physically trimmed by a laser as a final quality assurance. This all adds up to big $$$. All this is why I personally think some professionals report little to no improvement using the 96/24 or 192/24 formats.

    But consumer level equipment is a different story. Here's the short version of why higher sampling rates sound better through my and other people's "affordable" hi-res players:

    The filters are much different. For example, the filter for 96/24 is set at @45kHz, quite far away from the audible frequencies. Because of this they can be much gentler & in turn cause less signal ripple (i.e. distortion). And as a side benefit, since they are gentler and further away, they don't need to be very sophisticated >>> they're cheap to build. And unless I'm remembering this wrong, us consumers get 1-bit converters for the digital-to-analog PCM conversion but the better filters make up for the lower quality of this type of converter (1-bit DACs work at very high speeds which generates more noise but they are much cheaper to build compared to the multibit types).

    Conjecture: the extended frequency response of hi-res digital might also contribute additional natural harmonics to improve the audible sounds, but the experts can't seem to agree on this idea.

    And: those extra bits (20 or 24 compared to 16) also contribute to better sound because these extra bits give the converter and other associated circuits "elbow room" if any mistakes are made when handling the signal. This is especially true during additional digital processing during the recording process in the studio (compression, special effects, EQ, etc).

    The end result is that consumers get a cleaner and less futzed-with analog signal. And with up to four times as many samples (192kHz rate) we get bonus snapshots of the original sound--I've never heard yet this causes any problems.

    ************************************************** ***********

    So, since the pros can't even agree what makes a certain recording format sound better, I have pretty much stopped worrying about this myself. Nowadays, I just put the disc in the player & if it sounds good......great. If it sucks, I hope the quality of the music makes up for it!

    LJ
     
  16. JimBarrese

    JimBarrese Stunt Coordinator

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    Sounds like the DVD-A might be the one to get if the sound is the same and it had extra videos. Although I have a Pioneer 563 and robertLP's post about it not playing right on his player concerns me a little. Anyone else have a Pioneer 563 and try this DVD-A?
     
  17. Chris Tedesco

    Chris Tedesco Second Unit

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    Hey Jim, Yup. I too have the Pioneer 563a. It is the one that I compared the two on. I didn't notice any problems on either on of the discs.

    The only thing I can think of is when you first put in the disc, it takes a few seconds to get going, but that's all.

    If you are into the frills, then DVD A might be the way to go...heck 6 videos is kinda cool huh?
     
  18. Justin Lane

    Justin Lane Cinematographer

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  19. Will_B

    Will_B Producer

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    On the DVDA version, does the disc turn off when the music ends, or does it return to a menu with nauseatingly-repeating menu music? That would seal the deal for me: SACD for this one!
     
  20. JimBarrese

    JimBarrese Stunt Coordinator

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    I was only concerned about the sampling rate because it seemed kind of low compared to what it could have been. But if that's the sampling rate of the original source, then that's cool (I didn't know that).
     

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