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Beauty and the Beast (2017) (1 Viewer)

Edwin-S

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Zootopia ended up making more than BvS, which I thought, was more remarkable. They came out around the same time, plus I don't think much was expected from Zootopia. A fox and rabbit would end up beating the 2 most well-known superheroes at the box office.

I don't get that bit about not much being expected from Zootopia. The trailers pointed to that film being a success from the get go. The premise of Batman versus Superman was stupid to me right from the start. Batman fighting Superman? To me, it should have been the shortest movie in history.

Batman: Lets fight.
Superman: Sure
Priest: We are gathered here to see our dearly beloved, Bruce Wayne, laid to rest.
Onlooker: Have you ever noticed that Batman has been missing ever since Wayne showed up dead in Gotham's alleys.
 

TravisR

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I don't get that bit about not much being expected from Zootopia. The trailers pointed to that film being a success from the get go. The premise of Batman versus Superman was stupid to me right from the start. Batman fighting Superman? To me, it should have been the shortest movie in history.

Batman: Lets fight.
Superman: Sure
Priest: We are gathered here to see our dearly beloved, Bruce Wayne, laid to rest.
Onlooker: Have you ever noticed that Batman has been missing ever since Wayne showed up dead in Gotham's alleys.
They should have had that be a joke scene at the end of the credits.
 

Citizen87645

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8129be36a3101364b39d3345555418b7.jpg
 

Brandon Conway

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What are the four quadrants?

Male, Female, Young, Old (usually split at 25, though I think 35 is probably a better mark). BvS skews heavily towards Male, Young. A movie like Zootopia is pretty evenly balanced among all four. Every Disney distributed film tries to balance between the four as much as possible, because on average that's where the most profit is to be had. When you only release 6-10 films a year this most certainly needs to be the case.

Disney would never greenlight a film that challenges any preconceived notions in the way BvS does. Even Civil War - which I think is the better film than BvS, BTW - doesn't challenge anybody with the characters because of the idea that Marvel "took their time" to build to it. Yes, they did, partly because they are so hesitant to release something that may not appeal to everyone. They are driven by the notion to appeal as broadly as possible. This is a fine way to go, but not the only way to go.

But in an atmosphere where a movie "sucks" unless it appeals to the widest possible pop culture audience and makes $1 billion at the box office or it's a failure, Warner probably shouldn't have greenlit a film that had some restrictive appeal. The only measurement of quality that "matters" is popularity and the money that symbolizes it.
 
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Edwin-S

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But in an atmosphere where a movie "sucks" unless it appeals to the widest possible pop culture audience and makes $1 billion at the box office or it's a failure, Warner probably shouldn't have greenlit a film that had some restrictive appeal. The only measurement of quality that "matters" is popularity and the money that symbolizes it.

Then how do you explain the success of Logan which was as restrictive as they come? Maybe it isn't because people think that movies that appeal to a narrow audience suck. Maybe it was just they thought that BvS sucked.

Edit: Changed widest to narrow, so the sentence made sense.
 

Brandon Conway

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Then how do you explain the success of Logan which was as restrictive as they come? Maybe it isn't because people think that movies that appeal to a narrow audience suck. Maybe it was just they thought that BvS sucked.

BvS still made $250m more than Logan. Success is relative. I'm not claiming that BvS has an indie art house size audience, because it doesn't. I'm saying that in relation to tentpole filmmaking it has a more limited appeal once you disregard the appeal of the two characters when placed in a more traditional story. It's a story that simply will not appeal to everyone, regardless of execution of that idea. You said yourself - the very idea of Batman and Superman fighting is a non-starter for you. No matter how good the film executed this idea, you would have NEVER liked it.

Additionally, Logan is - despite its R-rating trappings - a rather traditional story outline of broken man steps up to be a hero for a younger person one more time. It practically screams at the audience "This is basically Shane!"

But I commend Fox for trying to new angles, even if they are mostly superficial presentation elements rather than based in story. Disney hasn't allowed anyone to be bold in how a story unfolds since Iron Man 3, something that a certain % of the fanbase absolutely hated because it dared try something non-traditional in its storytelling.

Disney has learned that if you want to make the highest box office with a known IP, you deliver the exact story people expect. You don't take chances with story. That's BvS biggest "flaw" in regards to its attempt to be populist entertainment/maximize profits.

Tying this back into Beauty and the Beast - the film offers exactly zero story surprises. Which is fine, because it delivers the film the audience expects, and they're happily handing over their money for it. But the current theatrical success template is clear right now if one wants to maximize profits:

Established IP = deliver the story people expect from that property, a.k.a. the idealized version of those characters/story.

Non-IP original = this is where audiences want boldness/innovation/high-concept ideas (Get Out being the latest example).
 
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Edwin-S

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Really? I thought with all the raves that it would gave beat BvS in box office take. As for "Logan" being "Shane", every story is just a variation of the same themes. There is nothing new under the sun when it comes to story telling.
 

Brandon Conway

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Really? I thought with all the raves that it would gave beat BvS in box office take.

Yeah. The current #'s are:

BvS - $873m WW ($330m US, $543m INT)
Logan - $603m WW ($222m US, $381m INT)

As for "Logan" being "Shane", every story is just a variation of the same themes. There is nothing new under the sun when it comes to story telling.

True. But if one is trying to appeal broadly with story, then Shane is a much better choice in that regard than Boorman's Excalibur.
 
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Walter C

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Getting back on topic, I could not believe that I saw this. I can remember thinking back then, how it's rare to see female characters being the subject of physical comedy. :D

snowball.gif
 

Brandon Conway

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Logan also had a smaller budget.

Yes, because Fox understood the things that would curb mass appeal, and made the risk averse choice. Expect WB to either curb budgets or require their filmmakers take less chances with their IP characters/stories. 2017 will see the last releases of the previous producers who greenlit riskier projects on larger budgets with King Arthur, Geostorm, etc. Justice League is the last of the DCEU films to be conceived under the old regime, and they're gonna use its "every hero in their ideal place" ending to soft reboot the series, with all subsequent films for the next 4-5 years being safe, what-the-populist-audience-expects stories.
 

Wayne_j

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Just passed $1.1 billion, it will probably pass $1.2 billion world wide and $500 million domestically before it is all done.
 

David Norman

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Looks like Rogue One domestically is far out of reach. Dropped to 16M over the last 7 days so instead of an Easter bump it seemed to accelerate the decrease somewhat. With a lot of big releases in May I don't really see it hanging on into the summer and hoping for a Disney summer rally. Looks like it may wheeze into 500M passing US Finding Dory in another 12-14 days.
 

Tino

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"Wheeze" into $500 million. Lol. :P

I think the fact that a remake of an animated classic came pretty close to beating an original Star Wars film domestically ( and actually beat it worldwide) is pretty amazing.
 

David Norman

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Somewhat tongue in cheek obviously, but it is still shocking to me to see huge movie like this in and out of the theaters in basically 8 weeks with more than a 1/3 of the boxoffice the first week. Aladdin didn't even get to #1 in boxoffice until it's 8th week

It just wasn't that long ago that Avatar was number one in weekly box office for nearly 2 months. Titanic was Number 1 movie for 15 straight weeks. E.T was Top 5 weekly boxoffice for 26 weeks and Top 10 for almost a year.
 

cinemiracle

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Somewhat tongue in cheek obviously, but it is still shocking to me to see huge movie like this in and out of the theaters in basically 8 weeks with more than a 1/3 of the boxoffice the first week. Aladdin didn't even get to #1 in boxoffice until it's 8th week

It just wasn't that long ago that Avatar was number one in weekly box office for nearly 2 months. Titanic was Number 1 movie for 15 straight weeks. E.T was Top 5 weekly boxoffice for 26 weeks and Top 10 for almost a year.[/QUOTE

SOUTH PACIFIC managed to pack them in for 4 and a half continuous years at the same London cinema. DILWALE DULHANIA LE JAYENGE ran continuously at one Indian cinema for more than a decade (truly a masterpiece).I have watched the bluray numerous times. SOUND OF MUSIC also ran for more that 3 and a half years in London and Sydney.(10 months where I worked) Numerous films ran for more than a year continuously at the same cinema back in the fifties and sixties. With many leading city newspapers no longer advertising cinemas and what movies are showing, films come and go without many people knowing if they have even been shown. It is just another case of Distributors and cinema chains not caring any more. Recently I missed seeing FANTASTC BEASTS AND WHERE TO FIND THEM in 70mm as the only cinema is Sydney screening it in 70mm , never advertised their cinema in the press.I suspect that the same will happen with DUNKIRK in July. How time have changed -for the worse.
 

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