Battle of the small cube subs...Velo, REL, Sunfire...

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Keir H, Mar 5, 2002.

  1. Keir H

    Keir H Second Unit

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    Just wondering if anyone has any opinions on smaller high wattage subwoofers as far as which one kicks the most butt..REL Q200e, VElo HGS10/12, Eathquake MKIV (10"?), Sunfire True Sub, others...? Maybe the collection of opinions could help those that are very space limited...(vertical space and floor space).
     
  2. Chris Zell

    Chris Zell Stunt Coordinator

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    Might want to go to the 'Secrets' site (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/main.html). They review, and give some limited measurements on all the Snfires (Jr, True, True MkII, Signature), as well as the HGS10, HGS12 and HGS18. Here is a list of the max output numbers printed inside the reviews (I assume the measurements were done in the same manner, otherwise the comparison loses some validity). Read the text also - just numbers can be misleading. All were reviewed by the same guy, John E. Johnson, so the numbers shpuld be apples to apples. I tried to write down all the max outputs that are in the review, but sometimes there are not very many. too bad he doesen't just list a table of max outputs at certain frequencies for each review!
    Sunfire Jr :
    50 Hz 108.5 dB
    40 Hz 106.5 dB
    31.5 Hz 106 dB
    25 Hz 96 dB
    Sunfire MK-II :
    25 Hz 105.3 dB
    no other max numbers given
    Sunfire Signature :
    31.5 Hz 117.3 dB
    25 Hz 107.8
    Velo HGS10 :
    25 Hz 104.5 dB
    No others listed
    Velo HGS12 :
    31.5 Hz 112 dB
    Velo HGS18 :
    31.5 Hz 123 dB
    25 Hz 108 dB
    The winner was the HGS 18 as expected - no surprise, this is a killer sub (although it did not best the Sunfire Sig at 25 Hz by much). But it is much better down really low (I'm not sure the HGS18 qualifies as a smaller sub that is in the thread title though!). The Sunfires do attenuate pretty quickly any inputs < 20 Hz, so the Velos in general are allowed to, and will play the ultra-low stuff better.
    I believe both have limiters, which is good and bad. Limiting is in itself distortion/compression, but you don't have to dive for your volume dial if it is too loud and your subs are crashing!
    All the subs were said to be very clean, with little if any doubling even down low at high levels. Both have feedback to reduce distortion - accelerometers for velo, current feedback for Sunfire. that said, I do suxpect that the velos have slightly lower distortion, but how noticeable it would be with music is another question.
    Based on the above reviews as far as output goes, I would tentatively rate them as follows. take this with a few grains, since I don;t have a lot of data points! (it is also partly based on the review text itself colored by my opinion):
    Sunfire Jr. (definitely the lowest output, but impressive for it's very small size)
    Velo HGS10
    Sunfire MK-II (close call with HGS 10)
    Velo HGS 12
    Sunfire Signature (probably similar to the nonreviewed HGS15)
    Velo HGS 18
    Once again, this is mainly output level based ratings. You'd have to listen yourself, and weigh the different design philosophies, looks, price etc. I have heard the different the Velos and was very impressed, but not in great detail for extended periods. I have quite a lot of experience with the Sunfire Sig, and IMO it as an excellent, very powerful sub that is easily hidden from view.
    Can't help with the others on your list - never heard them or seen reviews that I can remember.
    Cheers,
    Chris
     
  3. ling_w

    ling_w Second Unit

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    HGS/18 is not a small cube sub anymore.

    From what I heard, the Velos has a limiter in which any signal that causes it to reach the limit will force the whole signal to be limited (some sort of feedback loop from servo to input stage,) so there will be compression in the whole bandwidth handled by the sub. While on the Sunfire, they limit the peak while keeping the rest of the spectrum cranked up, resulting in less overall compression.

    Velo will overdrive nicely while Sunfire will go louder, but not as cleanly.
     
  4. Keir H

    Keir H Second Unit

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    Nothing on the Earthquake Super Nova though guys?? I hear that it's one slammin sub too...
     
  5. Sihan Goi

    Sihan Goi Second Unit

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    Earthquake's are huge though. I haven't heard the rest, but I've heard the Sunfire True Subwoofer(not sure which model, but judging from its size, should have been the Jr) with Dynaudio Countour speakers, and some fine electronics(again, can't remember brand, but its hi-end separates). The dealer was playing Blue Man Group's "Audio" DVD-A software and it sounded really good for its size. What impressed me was the punch and tightness of the bass, and for a sub that small, its bass extension wasn't to be scoffed at either. The showroom was pretty small though, so the sub might not sound as good in a larger room.
     
  6. Mark C.

    Mark C. Supporting Actor

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    I have the True Sub Jr. and for what it's designed to do, it does it very well. It was never meant to compete with the Big-box subs. But placed properly in a corner, it gives you plenty of low-end.

    I went with the Jr. because I had space limitations, but I've been very pleased both for music and HT.
     
  7. farnamT

    farnamT Agent

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    Earthquake MK-IV ->

    only 15" cube, so i think its fair to consider it a small subwoofer. Its one heavy sub though, mine weighs in at 74 pounds and still it manages to visibily shake on
     
  8. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    the EQ is listed at 17.5x16.25x16.25...not sure if that included the bulge for the surrounds or not.(if not..add about 2"). Very close to a HGS15 from VEL...which usually isn't considered a *small cube* by any stretch of the imagination. It's all in the eye of the beholder though.

    TV
     
  9. farnamT

    farnamT Agent

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    I think that measurement is with the bulge of the surround.
     
  10. Russ B

    Russ B Auditioning

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    Be careful with Sunfire.

    I had a MKII develop a hairline crack in the enclosure about 7 months after I purchased it (still under warrenty). Sunfire initially dismissed the problem with no intention of replacing the enclosure.

    Luckily the shop that made the sale to me persevered and I eventually got the enclosure replaced.
     
  11. MatthewJ S

    MatthewJ S Supporting Actor

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    Mirage SS1500?
     

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