Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (1 Viewer)

[Tony J Case]

Hoped, yes. Hedged their bets and see $800m+ as a success? Also yes.

The real test is if the shitty reviews and word of mouth, and the lower than anticipated box office spill over into Suicide Squad. Batmanslaughter vs Space Jesus might have made it's money back (just), but did it damage the franchise?

 

[Brandon Conway]

I'd say no. Even people who didn't like the movie seem to have increased their interest for more Batman and Wonder Woman.

 

[JeremyR]

I've never seen a Patty Jenkins film, but I do wonder if Wonder Woman will be the driving force behind these next films. I think, if nothing else, America might be hungry for a heroine. Disney has largely ignored Black Widow. Of course she's part of Avengers, but Warner's could really take advantage of the fact that people might be tired of seeing all these boys kicking ass and are ready to see a woman beat some ass. Affleck is a terrific director as well and a solo Batman film excites me from him, and I don't even really care about Batman. But his portrayal of Batman intrigued me way more then what Nolan did. While I enjoyed Dawn of Justice, I do wish someone with a lighter touch was in charge of Superman. There has to be a happy medium between Singer's Superman Returns and then Snyder's Superman.

 

[Sam Favate]

Just when I thought I'd rolled my last eye at this film:

Robin Was Also a Killer in Zack Snyder's DC Cinematic Murderverse

http://io9.gizmodo.com/robin-was-also-a-killer-in-zack-snyders-dc-cinematic-mu-1771781312

 

[Brandon Conway]

That seems like a major stretch of logic. Ninja Turtles have bladed weapons. Iron Man has explosives. Thor's hammer. People need to accept that the vast majority of super heroes have weapons that could kill multiple people.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

As Travis said, I always thought most films had a 4-hr rough cut. They obviously never intend to have them be that long.

Yup. We often hear fans go crazy because they think there's a four-hour cut of some movie, but there really isn't - rough cuts shouldn't count.

Cripes, wasn't the "Spinal Tap" rough cut four hours? I love that movie but it'd be awful at that length!

 

[Oliver Ravencrest]

Just when I thought I'd rolled my last eye at this film:

Robin Was Also a Killer in Zack Snyder's DC Cinematic Murderverse

http://io9.gizmodo.com/robin-was-also-a-killer-in-zack-snyders-dc-cinematic-mu-1771781312

UGH! I think they're taking "dark and gritty" too far..;

 

[Brandon Conway]

Yep. I think we need to go back to our super heroes swinging sausage links and loafs of bread like in TMNT 2. Put away your guns, Black Murder Widow. Those explosives in your suit make you culpable, Iron Murder Man. By the Murderously Capable Hammer of Thor, I dub thee Murder Thor.

This petty tit-for-tat piling on to BvS is getting excessively pathetic. One can use a weapon non-lethally. Last I checked, arrows are lethal weapons too, right Hawk-Murder-Eye?

 

[Brandon Conway]

Also, there's a difference in the concept art being discussed in that article, and what is actually in the film:

http://i.imgur.com/8CHBcip.png

We've seen the weapon in this shot since the July 2014 comic con trailer. Why is this coming up now?

 

[Tino]

And the pile on mentality continues.......

 

[TravisR]

Yep. I think we need to go back to our super heroes swinging sausage links and loafs of bread like in TMNT 2.

I would love to see, say, the next Avengers do that with no explanation.

Accepting the premise of a world with superheroes, both the Marvel and DC movies are fairly realistic and the stakes for both the heroes and villains would frequently be life and death. The bad guys would frequently be trying to kill the non-superhuman Batman and Robin- not hurt them but end their lives- and they'd routinely be placed in situations where it was killed or be killed. Personally, I'd like to see a more sliver age or light hearted approach to the material but the realistic approach that all these movies take requires serious consequences or it's just a dishonest cop out where they don't show the likely outcome of the mountain of violence in all of these movies.

 

[JeremyR]

That seems like a major stretch of logic. Ninja Turtles have bladed weapons. Iron Man has explosives. Thor's hammer. People need to accept that the vast majority of super heroes have weapons that could kill multiple people.

Yep... Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman.. doesn't mean they use them in that sense. Besides, most heroes do not have the incredible sense of morality that Superman, Spider-Man, and Captain America have.

 

[Tony J Case]

This petty tit-for-tat piling on to BvS is getting excessively pathetic.

You don't actually have a clue about Batman's character do you.

Joker, for example, has always tried to break Batman psychologically. He would give him choices where any choice would mean certain death for someone or if Joker gets caught, he would always propose to Batman that he could kill Joker and end it all or put him in jail only for him to break out again and kill someone else.

Batman knows that killing Joker might end it all, but he also knows that it is exactly what Joker wants. And if today, Batman thinks it is okay to kill Joker, then tomorrow he may decide that it is okay to kill someone else. He knows that it's the start of a slippery slope and knows exactly what Joker wants him to do - to take that first step.

He knows that if he gave in, he would just be another corrupt costumed criminal in an ocean of villainy. Batman wouldn't be a hero - he'd just be the top criminal on a pile of dead criminals.

But Batman is a myth. He — and Superman too — are on totally different levels from these other guys, which means they have different rules. Just like Batman is always prepared, Superman always does the right thing. Spider-Man, Captain America and Iron Man all have personal problems. Do you know what Superman and Batman’s personal problem is? Evil.

Superman is especially the character that is supposed to inspire us to aspire to something greater. That’s his whole damn point. He is supposed to represent humanity at its best. He’s supposed make the right decision even when they doesn’t seem to be one. When faced with two impossible choices - killing Zod or letting an innocent family die - he’s supposed to figure out a third option. That’s his greatest superpower, not to lift mountains or fly or survive in the heart of a star - but to always do the right thing.

When Superman fails to do this, he’s brought down to the level of any run-of-the-mill comic superhero, and he shouldn’t be. This is what puts Batman and Superman above all the other comic characters and makes them special. I don’t want to see Superman failing to live up to his moral code, or angsting over his actions. I have every other comic character for that. I want to see Superman be super.

And that is why Supergirl, for all the problems the show may have, is a billion times better than the load of fucking bullshit that is Batmanslaughter vs Space Jesus.

 

[Brandon Conway]

I know Batman and Superman quite well. I don't need a lecture from you in order to like multiple interpretations of the characters.

So, don't talk down to me like I'm your inferior just because you have different tastes than I do. I like several comic variations of Batman, and several movie variations of Batman - Batman '66, Batman '89 (killer), Batman: TAS, Batman '05-12 (inadvertent killer), BvS (killer on the edge, who gets pulled back from it). I like several comic variations of Superman, and Superman movies - Superman '78-80, Superman: TAS, Superman '13-16.

Get over yourself. I'm sorry you didn't like this movie, but your dislike doesn't mean I have to dislike it, either. That's petty, pathetic, and, frankly, immature. One can like your strict view of how to portray these characters AND like the DCEU versions of these characters in the two movies we have so far. They are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Tony J Case]

Well, that extremely well thought out and well reasoned rebuttal shuts my argument down cold. Congratulations, sir and/or madam.

 

[Brandon Conway]

I don't need to waste my time responding to you. You've told me exactly zero information I didn't know already. You are now on my ignore list so you won't see me respond to you again. Feel free to do the same to me.

 

[TravisR]

Batman knows that killing Joker might end it all, but he also knows that it is exactly what Joker wants. And if today, Batman thinks it is okay to kill Joker, then tomorrow he may decide that it is okay to kill someone else. He knows that it's the start of a slippery slope and knows exactly what Joker wants him to do - to take that first step.

I don't even want to get in the middle of this but I've always found that to be an excuse for DC and the writers to keep an iconic character like The Joker alive rather than a believable reason for Batman to not kill him. The lack of consequences, the knowledge that everything will pretty much go back to normal at some point and that there's never really going to be a lasting effect to any of the events (even death) is a reason why I generally don't like superhero comic books. Prior to Frank Miller and Alan Moore* when comic books weren't all about psychological drama, I had no problem with the lack of consequences but with today's more serious comic books (and comic book movies), a big chunk of the fans want the serious drama but they aren't willing to have the serious consequences that would be the inevitable outcome. If people are constantly in mortal danger, someone will die. No one can be smart enough to out think that or strong enough to prevent it every time.

* I love 'em but they shifted the industry in a different and darker direction.

 

[Gary Seven]

Batman and Superman have gone through many interpretations through the years. In the beginning, Batman was a killer and Superman was Superman because he was super, coming from a race of supermen, nothing more. Over the years, various media have put their spin on it and the comics have changed and evolved the characters over time. I have all the various media incarnations of Superman and Batman on LD, DVD and Blu-Ray as well as a few thousand comic books in storage from the 50's - 90's, as well as reprints from the golden era so I am pretty familiar with the characters.

And the writing on Supergirl is sophomoric at best.

 

[Cees Alons]

"You don't actually have a clue about Batman's character do you."
"Well, that extremely well thought out and well reasoned rebuttal shuts my argument down cold. Congratulations, sir and/or madam."

Sarcasm and getting personal don't prove you have strong arguments - hidden somewhere.
They are unpleasant in a discussion, spoil nice threads and in fact, we strongly discourage such behaviour.

Please don't do it again.


Cees

 

[Tino]

So you have finally seen the movie Tony?