Bass troubles with Paradigm Speakers/Yamaha receiver

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Tom_Mack, Oct 29, 2001.

  1. Tom_Mack

    Tom_Mack Stunt Coordinator

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    When listening to music (mostly classic rock), I have noticed that the mid to upper bass levels are quite lacking and overall the sound is very thin. Specifically, the bass guitar and kick drum levels are very soft and muddy when compared to the higher frequencies. The output below these frequencies that is coming from the sub sounds fine to me. Turning up the bass knob on the receiver just makes the sound muddier. This is most noticeable in 2-channel mode, but also on DTS CDs and anytime rock/pop/jazz music is played in a movie. It really sounds weak.
    Is this due to my speaker/receiver combo? I have Paradigm Monitor 7 v.1 mains, cc-370 center, mini-monitor v.2 rears, and a PDR-10 sub. My receiver is a Yamaha RXV-596. This combo doesn't sound very musical to me at all right now. My next upgrade was going to be an SVS, but will upgrading my receiver make a huge difference when it comes to music? Which receiver would make the most impact with the bass, be more musical overall?
    Thanks!
     
  2. VicQ

    VicQ Stunt Coordinator

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    How do you have your speakers and bass routing setup? Do you have the speakers set to large or small? Do you have the bass going only to the sub, only to the mains, or to both, the main and the sub?
    -Vic
     
  3. Tom_Mack

    Tom_Mack Stunt Coordinator

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    I have the center and surrounds set to small all the time. I had the mains set to large, but recently set them to small, not much of a noticable difference with the mains in either setting. All bass is going to sub, I tried sending the bass to both before, and it just made the sound more boomy and muddy. All speakers have been calibrated with AVIA and a SPL meter.
     
  4. Darin H

    Darin H Auditioning

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    I have the Yamaha RXV596 and Mini Monitors as mains set to small with bass going to a DIY Shiva Sonotube. I have found that room placement makes all the difference in your situation.
     
  5. Brian OK

    Brian OK Supporting Actor

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    I think Darin hit on something
    ..... room placement.....
    Or, your Room ( ie room layout and possible need for room acoustical treatment ) and your speaker Placement within your room.
    May want to try tinkering with these two possibilities.
    I use a Yam DSP-A1 and Monitor 7 mains.
    BOK
     
  6. Ron Alcasid

    Ron Alcasid Stunt Coordinator

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    Make sure the crossover in the sub is set to it's highest setting if you are using the bass management in your receiver.
     
  7. Dan Driscoll

    Dan Driscoll Supporting Actor

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    Tom,
    I have an RX-V596 driving a pair of Monitor 90Ps (w/built-in powered subs), a CC-350 center and ADP-370 rears. I have not had any problems that you are describing. IMO the 596 is a pretty decent entry level receiver and I would look at some other solutions before placing the blame there.
    As several others have noted, check the positioning of the sub and main speakers. If I get my 90Ps too close to a corner they will start sounding boomy and distorted. Check that the receiver is set-up properly. I don't have my manual right now, but IIRC, there is an LFE crossover setting, make sure it is set as high as possible.
    ------------------
    Dan
     
  8. Sean_B

    Sean_B Stunt Coordinator

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    Ron, how does one know what the crossover setting is? I have Yammy receiver. The sub has crossover settings but don't know what it should be set at?
     
  9. Darin H

    Darin H Auditioning

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    The x-over for the RXV596 is 90hz when speakers are set to small.
     
  10. Nick G

    Nick G Stunt Coordinator

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    Sean, if have your mains set to small, the dial on the sub should be as high as it will go since the receiver will be handling the cross over chores. Some subs (HSU VTF2 is one) have a switch to completely shut off the subs crossover, which you should do if your sub has such a switch. Again, this is when you have your speakers set to small, which in most cases is how you want to do it.
    Nick
     
  11. Tom_Mack

    Tom_Mack Stunt Coordinator

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    I did some speaker placement and sub tweaks and it helped a little. It didn't completely solve the problem, but it is a little better.
    Two more questions:
    1.When checking the sub, I closely listened to what frequencies were coming through as I raised the crossover on the sub. I noticed that there were some sound coming through all the way up to the top 150hz level. Why are frequencies around 150hz coming through if the crossover is at 90hz???? I know that some higher frequencies will pass through to make the sound more natural than a brick wall crossover, but isn't 150hz for a 90hz crossover a little extreme???
    2.One of the problems with DTS CD and movie soundtracks is that to get fair bass response, the bass control has to be turned up. This works OK, but the added bass only goes to the main channels, therefore in 5 channel music (where the bass is usually coming from the center channel) the mains sound OK, but the center channel doesn't match. The sub helps with the center, but it is mostly the frequencies above the crossover that are causing the problem. Do the tone controls on all receivers only affect the main speakers?
    Thanks!
     
  12. Lou Sytsma

    Lou Sytsma Producer

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    Tom - the crossover point is not a brick wall. There will always be some bleed over.
    As to the difference in bass response between DD and DTS - does your reciever have DD and DTS LFE settings?
    My Yamaha 2095 has this. DD and DTS LFE should be at the highest setting. I believe DD is at 10 on a scale of -10 to 10. DTS is at 0 on a scale of -20 to 0. Sorry can't remember off the top of my head.
    There is also a LFE setting on my Yamaha 2095 and it is on a scale of -20 to 0. I have it set at -15.
    On my sub - which is a powered SVS 20-39 I have the crossover at the highest setting and the amp at about 3/4's.
    ------------------
    Every man is my superior, in that I may learn from him.
    MyHTSetup
     
  13. Mark Booth

    Mark Booth Screenwriter

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    Everyone please remember that the following is just my opinion, based upon past experiences with Yamaha receivers. Your mileage may vary. Void where prohibited by law. Not applicable in all states of mind. [​IMG]
    I've always felt that Yamaha receivers were a little too "bright". That is, a bit lacking in bass. In fact, I thought this was somewhat of a universally accepted observation.
    Not attempting to denigrate anyone's choice in manufacturer. Just an opinion based upon my past experiences.
    Mark
     
  14. Tom_Mack

    Tom_Mack Stunt Coordinator

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    In response to the sub settings:
    DTS = +10
    DD = 0
    Sub = -15
    The sub itself is set at around 12 o'clock on the volume with the crossover at the max. According the the AVIA sub setup, my sub is about +4 above the level of the other speakers.
     
  15. Tom_Mack

    Tom_Mack Stunt Coordinator

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    I have been wondering if my lack of bass is due to the Paradigm/Yamaha combo. I know (at least now I do) that both the Paradigm Monitors and Lower-middle end Yamaha receivers are considered by many people to be bright. I would assume that the combo of the two could make things brighter. I had always considered the Yamaha receiver I have as my entry receiver into home theater (it was one of the only ones I could afford at the time) and hope to replace it within a year or 2. Will a Marantz or Denon help with this problem?
     
  16. Lou Sytsma

    Lou Sytsma Producer

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    Hmmm don't what else to tell you Tom.
    You can check my setup on the link below.
    Lack of bass is not an issue for me.
    As to the bass being muddy it is probably related to the PDR-10 sub. My SVS 20-39PC sub handles both HT and music exceptionally.
    ------------------
    Every man is my superior, in that I may learn from him.
    MyHTSetup
    [Edited last by Lou Sytsma on October 30, 2001 at 01:25 PM]
     
  17. Nick G

    Nick G Stunt Coordinator

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    Tom, your receiver is way down on the list of things to tinker with to improve sound. Room acoustics, speakers/sub choice, source material (the particular CD or DVD you are listening to) speaker/sub models, sub/speaker calibration and placement are the things that contribute to 98% of your sound. I would start by experimenting with sub/main speaker placement.
    Nick
     
  18. ChrisAG

    ChrisAG Supporting Actor

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    After replacing my Yamaha RX-V390 with a Marantz SR-6200 there was a noticable increase in bass and overall detail, so I would not completely rule out the receiver as being part of the problem. I'm not trying to be an audio snob [​IMG] but moving up to the manufacturer's mid-range equipment does make a difference. In Yamaha's case that would currently be the 800/1000/1200/2200 series.
     

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