Bass management

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by ScottHannen, Dec 11, 2001.

  1. ScottHannen

    ScottHannen Extra

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    Does anyone know a good reference for determining whether to set front, center, and surround speakers as "large," "normal," or "small," etc.? My Kenwood VR-407 manual is vague. It says to use "large" if I have large speakers.

    I haven't determined which speakers I'm going to purchase yet; I'm leaning toward JBL N-28s, N24s, and an N-Center, but I'm trying to determine to what extent I should take bass management into account.

    Thanks,

    Scott
     
  2. Steve Morgan

    Steve Morgan Second Unit

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    Scott, the speakers you are looking at should be set to small. If they can't produce bass down to 20hz.Then set them to small and let the sub do what it was meant to do.
     
  3. ScottHannen

    ScottHannen Extra

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    If you set them to 'small,' where is the cutoff point, that is, what is the lowest frequency that will be sent to the mains?

    Thanks,

    Scott
     
  4. ScottHannen

    ScottHannen Extra

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    Ok, I can see after searching past threads that this gets beat to death fairly often. I hate to admit that I still don't understand most of it.

    The one item that seemed consistent was to set my front speakers to "small." It doesn't help that my Kenwood VR-407 has "large" and "normal" but no "small," but I'm guessing that "normal" means "small."

    So is the gist of it to set my speakers to "small" and set the crossover as high as it will go? And then, if I use main speakers that go below 80Hz, I won't get too much localizable effects from the subwoofer or a gap between the speakers and subwoofer?

    Thanks,

    Scott
     
  5. jacek p

    jacek p Agent

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    Scott,

    I have VR509 with unknown to me crossover point and main speakers which reproduce down to 45 Hz. I have the same questions. Futhermore, when I experiment, there is no audible difference between normal (=small) and large setting, even though the manual says that subwoofer would be off with large setting. I also suspect that DD5.1 manages bass with its LFE channel, so the setting on the receiver may not metter much (I do not know this for sure). If you find out what the answer is, please let me know.
     
  6. Mike__D

    Mike__D Supporting Actor

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  7. todd stone

    todd stone Screenwriter

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    my god that guy went in depth! Kinda hard to understand some things he said, but I go the jist of it.
     
  8. ScottHannen

    ScottHannen Extra

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    I read the articles, but they are from more of a scientific point of view than what I'm looking for. What I can't figure out is this:

    When I read simpler articles that describe what the crossover is for, they explain that if the speaker is set to "large," your subwoofer won't get used because everything will be sent to the main speakers which probably can't reproduce it accurately.

    Or, if you set them to "small," signals below 80Hz go to the subwoofer instead of the left and right.

    So if those are the choices, why have a speaker that isn't full range down to 20Hz, but can produce bass below 80Hz, if that signal will never be sent to it? Or does the signal go to both the mains and the subwoofer? I'm sure it can't be quite as simple as I see it explained in some articles, or else no one would buy speakers that produce bass under 80Hz but aren't full-range.

    (When this is all done I'll have to re-register under another name to escape the cloud of all my newbie questions.)
     
  9. Pete Mazz

    Pete Mazz Supporting Actor

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    I think if more manufacturers started with calling the settings "Large or Normal" instead of "Large or Small" we would never have had as many of these threads.[​IMG]
    Even with a Xover of say 80 Hz, the speakers will still be reproducing frequencies well below that, only not as loud. One of the biggest benefits to using bass management is relieving the load on your amps or receiver. It takes quite a bit of power to get those last couple of octaves, and if you have a smaller receiver, the mains will sound better with a seperate subwoofer.
    Pete
     
  10. ScottHannen

    ScottHannen Extra

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    Thank you! I came across that same answer on another thread, but it's nice to have confirmation. You'd think that information would be a little easier to find.
     
  11. BruceD

    BruceD Screenwriter

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    Scott,

    The optimum placement of your main speakers is not optimum for the best bass response. Therefore by splitting off the lowest octave or two to a subwoofer, that can be placed in a corner, you get the highest output of bass.

    These are some of the main reasons for using a sub, even with main speakers that go low.

    BruceD
     
  12. Kieran Coghlan

    Kieran Coghlan Second Unit

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    Scott,
    If you're still looking for more explanation, I wrote an essay/article on the subject for friends who are looking to buy HT speakers and receivers. I was typing the same thing over and over so much in emails to friends, that I just made it into a paper. The first half is a *little* technical, so if you want you can sort of skim past it. But part two deals directly with what you're asking.
    The article is at my websiteHERE.
     
  13. John Stone

    John Stone Supporting Actor

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    Kieran,

    I found your article very informative and enjoyable, and it augmented the information contained in the wonderful AVS "Brian Florian" thread. Thanks for posting the link!
     
  14. ScottHannen

    ScottHannen Extra

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    That was useful, Kieran. The math and charts are good, but it also makes application.
     
  15. Kieran Coghlan

    Kieran Coghlan Second Unit

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    Thanks. I'm glad it helped. Feel free to email me or post if you have any further questions! [​IMG]
     

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