Bass boost disabled and I'm less impressed

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Robin Smith, Jul 10, 2002.

  1. Robin Smith

    Robin Smith Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi,
    I had the bass boost and rumble filter removed yesterday on my Sonosub.
    I am uncertain why, but I think I like it less. The WOW! shit-eating grin on your face kick I got before is not there so much. It definitely feels like it goes lower, but the bass is less impressive.
    I calibrated it with video essentials. I have the speakers set to 75 and the sub actually set to 82 and its still not as kick ass.
    Now I know I was getting an artificially high db on a certain frequency range before, so the calibration was more questionable but somehow it was more rewarding. I think the amp had a 4db boost @ 31 Hz and a 26Hz rumble filter. Mine is the MCM 250W plate amp.
    Part of me wants to be anal and say I would rather have the flattest, most accurate reproduction of sound, but part of me says, its no so good any more.
    I was wondering what others opinions were on this issue. Did you like things better after the bass boost was removed? Do I have wrong expectations?
    Did any of you just lower the boost/filter to a less extreme setting than what your amp came with.
    Any recommendations or suggestions on settings to play with?
    I like the concept of the sub being able to reproduce the lowest of the low frequencies. Could my problem be with the position of my sub?
    What settings do you have for your sonosub?
    Enlighten me...
    Thanks
    Robin
     
  2. VinhT

    VinhT Second Unit

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    I recently removed the 6dB@30Hz boost from my DIY sub. Sure, it took a while to get used to a flatter response, but I am very pleased with the results. Before, that boost would cause the amp to clip easily at high volumes. Now, the sub can be turned up a bit higher without any problems.

    Note that my sub isn't a sonosub, just a regular box PR one.
     
  3. Scott Simonian

    Scott Simonian Screenwriter

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    Robin - All I can say is if you like it keep it. Sure we all want the most accurate reproduction of music/movies as possible. Unfortunatly, it isnt always the most likable or sensisble way to go. If you like the sound of some frequencies pronounced, then by all means go with it. We wont scald you for having your own taste in sound.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  4. Manuel Delaflor

    Manuel Delaflor Supporting Actor

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    I agree with Scott
    Who cares if someone is hearing something that it is not "perfectly and accurately reproducing something" (oh the greatest myth [​IMG] ).
    In the end, is Your sound, and it surely needs to meet YOUR personal preferences.
    Keep your sound the way it is now for a few weeks, sometimes we take our time to get accustomed to a change like this. If after sometime you still miss the nice punch at the 30's, then by all means go for it!
    I think as fans of sound and users of this kind of forums we are suitable for influences, and some words are certainly bold Like: "boomy", "not accurate", "colored", etc.
    I just try to remember than all those are concepts, and that concepts are, by definition, subjective. So, I trust more my subjectivity than any other guy's one.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. jeff lam

    jeff lam Screenwriter

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    I personally like a eq'd or house curve sub much more than a ruler flat one. It just sounds much more lively. This is especially noticable when listening to music. Also take into account that I listen at lower levels than most people so a little extra bass boost is in order.
     
  6. Robin Smith

    Robin Smith Stunt Coordinator

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    I'll stick it out like this for a while and see if it grows on me. I only had the sub with bass boost for four days before modding the amp, so its not like I was that familiar with it, it just seemed more impressive.

    I was wondering, as more of an informal survey, what you all have your sub amps set to? What bass boost frequency, what rumble filter freq and what level of boost? And what other settings have you tried.

    Thanks


    Robin
     
  7. Rich Kraus

    Rich Kraus Stunt Coordinator

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    while were at it, lets calibrate our displays so that the red is a few degrees hot, and pull the blue convergence out of whack a bit "because we like it that way"

    hey your right, its your system. if you like your system intentionally out of cal, go for it.

    i never have understood why folks will shuck out a few hundred bucks to get their display isf'd (to get the video reproduction ruler flat), yet have no trouble with an audio system that is way off flat. house curve? been reading that one more and more latly. glad to know we have a softer word now for "out of calibration".

    ive argued this point before, and have yet to get a satisfactory answer. when you adjust an audio system to a flat response in roon it sounds funny, but your display looked funny when you calibrated it too didnt it?

    why do people strive for a flat video response, but intentionally adjust their audio to their own personal taste?
     
  8. LorenzoD

    LorenzoD Agent

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  9. KyleGS

    KyleGS Second Unit

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    I believe (I'm sure others agree) Rich is being a little over bearing and up-tight. Listen to your music the way you like it!!!! Leave that 'lil bump in the 35hz region...won't hurt no body.. :p)
     
  10. Manuel Delaflor

    Manuel Delaflor Supporting Actor

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    Perfection is in the mind of the beholder
     
  11. Robin Smith

    Robin Smith Stunt Coordinator

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    Actually, I am inclined to agree with Rich. This is kind of my whole point.

    My gut (but simple) reaction was I liked it better with the bass boost, but something about that bothers me because I would rather have the more accurate reproduction of sound.

    Same reason for watching (and arguing with "less-enlightened" friends) all my movies widescreen instead of full-screen.

    Same reason it took me a week to get used to my calibrated video after setting up with video essentials.

    Generally, I want to see and hear what the director intended and get the best audio and video reproduction out of my system.

    The dilemna/discussion topic is only that the bass boost version was more impressive.

    BTW, how can I measure how flat it is. All I have is video essentials and about a million THX optimodes on various DVDs.

    I assume I need to be able to play a continuous frequency tone (not a sweep), measure the db, then go down one hz, measure, and so on. Is this the way its done or am I missing some voodoo secret? I'd like to see how flat it is and where it rolls off.

    Thanks


    Robin Smith
     
  12. jeff lam

    jeff lam Screenwriter

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    I dissagree with Rich, you are comparing apples to oranges when you compare your eyes to ears. I would put money on the fact that everyone that "SEES" an ISF calibrated set will surely see an improvement on what they were "used to" or "liked" before it was ISF'd. When you talk about ears, everyone had different hearing and everyone has their own levels they like to listen to movies/music. This totally changes how you hear a DVD or CD. Someone with a normal listening level of about 60dB will wonder where the bass is on a ruler flat system while someone else that listens to loud levels like 90-100dB will hear plenty of bass. This is due to how our ear hears different frequencies. Shown here:
    http://www.evaluationengineering.com...s/0602voip.jpg
    Fletcher-Munson curve
    So a "House Curve" is very nessesary! Just do a simple sweep on your system from 100Hz to 20Hz. A ruler flat system will sound way louder at 100Hz than at 20-35Hz.
    Where's Wayne Pflughaupt when you need him? He's the mastermind of this stuff.
    Take a look at this thread which is on this very subject:
    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...threadid=81775
     
  13. Robin Smith

    Robin Smith Stunt Coordinator

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    Wow! Great thread Jeff. Thanks for the link. I'm going to do some more searches to see what I can find on this subject.

    One thing I will say is this:
    When played the pink noise on video essentials, I calibrated each main speaker at 75db and the sub at 78db.

    After removing the bass boost and rumble filter, I went through the same process and again calibrated the sub to 78db. These were readings provided by my rat shack spl meter.

    The first observation of the sub I made after removing the boost was that MY perception of the sub was it was "quieter", even though the spl read 78db.

    Step number two was to listen to the 200 - 20 tone sweep from an Optimode calibration. My preception was it got quieter as the tone droppped in freq, however, the readings I was able to observe with the spl meter showed the opposite. As the tone crossed over from mains to sub the db's actually increased.

    There was no obvious step where it was clear it went from main to sub, just a gradual decreasing in perceived volume but increase in spl metered dbs.

    This was not what I was expecting. After reading the thread Jeff just posted it makes a little more sense.

    I still stand by the fact that it appears to have made the sub less impressive, even if it is more accurate.

    Should I try other, less aggressive boosts? Does anyone use a different boost (lower amount of boost at lower freq for example?).

    Could the boost actually be required to make the response flat?

    And a final more philosophical question: which is more important "perceived response" or "measured response"?

    Thanks

    Robin
     
  14. jeff lam

    jeff lam Screenwriter

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    A parametric EQ would be the ideal solution to a proper "house curve". Just a single frequency bass boost won't cut it.

    Do a search on "BFD" and "House Curve". Pay close attention to posts by Wayne A. Pflughaupt. He knows more about EQing, room acoustics, and house curve than just about anyone.

    with these searches you will find a ton of very good info on the subject of subs, how they react in various rooms, how to properly EQ it, and much more.

    Good Luck!
     

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