Baseball Hall of Fame inductees and should be's

Discussion in 'After Hours Lounge (Off Topic)' started by DanielCo, Jan 6, 2004.

  1. DanielCo

    DanielCo Stunt Coordinator

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    Kudos to Paul Molitor and Dennis Eckersley, the two newest members of baseball's Hall of Fame. Both are very deserving of their first-year inductions.

    I just want to take this space to push for a couple of other candidates that I hope will get their due soon.

    Ryne Sandberg will probably get in very soon. The Hall is notorious for not putting in second and third baseman. Ryno was the best of his time and should be in within a couple of years.

    I am glad to see Bruce Sutter getting more support each year. This is his 11th year on the ballot and I hope 12 will be the charm. Of all the candidates not currently in the Hall, I believe Sutter is most deserving. This pitcher revolutionized pitching by, not only being the pioneer of the modern closer, but also by popularizing the split-fingered fastball. The Hall of Fame is created to look at the history of the game and Sutter's achievements on those two points alone should put him in.

    On that same level I think Tommy John's unique career should give him more notice. The surgery that repaired his throwing are, now named "Tommy John Surgery" was so effective that he pitched his three 20-win seasons after the repair. He finished with 288 wins and has been the inspiration to many pitchers who've had to overcome are injuries.

    The other players I would enshrine are Jim Rice, Andre Dawson, Goose Gossage, Lee Smith and Bert Blyleven.

    The writers are very protective of the Hall of Fame for good reason. These players would do honor to the shrine however, not diminish it.

    P.S. I have to vote no on Pete Rose. As great as he was, the harm he did to the game by risking its integrity more than overshadows his play.
     
  2. Marvin

    Marvin Screenwriter

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    I agree with the current choices (Molitor and Eckersley) but I wonder why Jack Morris did so poorly. Maybe it was because he didn't get along so well with the writers.

    Aside from him, I'd probably agree with you on John, Sutter, Blyleven and maybe Gossage. (I guess I must be partial to pitchers for some reason.)
     
  3. Chris

    Chris Lead Actor

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    Ryan Sandberg, judged against his peers, deserves to be in. He was a 9 time All-Star STARTER, and changed the way his position was perceived.

    The other one that baffles me is Goose Gossage, who, within his era, was an incredible stopper when the position of "closers" was just being invented. "Closers" are now too often evaluated against modern peers, even though they are used entirely differently and far more often.
     
  4. Dick Smyrak

    Dick Smyrak Auditioning

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    Being a Minnesota kid I too would like Bert to get the nod one day.
     
  5. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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    Alan Trammell has Hall Of Fame stats, but he will never get in.
     
  6. Brian Perry

    Brian Perry Cinematographer

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    I can't imagine why Sandberg hasn't made it. He has the most homers ever for a 2nd baseman, the best fielding % for a 2nd baseman (playing on natural grass, no less), the most consecutive games without an error at 2nd base, 9 Gold Gloves, 10 All-Star games, and hit .385 in the postseason.

    I can understand the mentality that only "special" players make it on the first ballot. But this was his second year. While I like Molitor, you could argue he is less deserving than Sandberg. Molitor was a DH for almost half of his career at-bats.
     
  7. Ralph Summa

    Ralph Summa Supporting Actor

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    I'm pretty bummed about Rice. He's been hovering around 55% for the last few years. I don't think he'll ever get the votes and his time is running out.

    When Rice was in his prime, he was a dominant player but most think he had a short prime. He also doesn't have the magic numbers like 500 HRs or 3,000 hits. I still think he should be in. I grew up watching him and I can't remember a more feared hitter during his time.
     
  8. Brian Perry

    Brian Perry Cinematographer

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    I agree-he had was the last player to have 400 total bases in a season, before the era of the juiced ball and juiced players.
     
  9. Patrick_S

    Patrick_S Producer

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    See I can't understand the "first ballot" mentality and have posted why before in previous HOF threads.

    Look a player either deserves to go in or he doesn't. It's not as if his numbers improve somehow later down the road so why not simply put them in when they become eligible?
     
  10. Marvin

    Marvin Screenwriter

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    Well, that's the point. There have been many players who were dominant for a short period of time - Ron Guidry, Cecil Fielder, Don Mattingly, Tony Oliva for example - but don't necessarily belong in the Hall of Fame
     
  11. Brian Perry

    Brian Perry Cinematographer

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    The more I think about it, I agree. Ideally, a player should be voted in the first year or not at all. And if the writers want to create a distinction for those "first ballot" type of players, then make it so that players with, say, 90%+ of the vote go into an "inner circle" of the HoF.
     
  12. Ralph Summa

    Ralph Summa Supporting Actor

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    My argument for Rice's induction is the comparison between Hall of Famer Tony Perez vs. Jim Rice.

    Tony Perez
    23 Seasons

    AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SLG
    .279 2777 9778 1272 2732 505 79 379 1652 .463

    Jim Rice
    16 Seasons
    AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SLG
    .298 2089 8225 1249 2452 373 79 382 1451 .502


    These are two guys with comparable stats that played during the same time period. I think what hurts Rice the most is that he wasn't media friendly.
     
  13. Marvin

    Marvin Screenwriter

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    Also, Perez was a first baseman and HoF voters probably expect better offensive numbers from an outfielder. I wouldn't be surprised if there are other outfielders with similar career stats that also aren't in the HoF, though I'm too lazy to look it up.

    Besides, Perez is, in my imho, at best a borderline HoFer. And there are quite a few HoFers that probably oughtn't to be there, which shouldn't be an excuse to let in any player with similar or better stats. Just because Don Drysdale was voted in, should any pitcher with 209 wins also get in?
     
  14. Tom Meyer

    Tom Meyer Second Unit

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    Re: sandberg

    While I too think he should be in, quoting his playoff stats really doesn't hold much water as he was only in 2 postseason series, *ever* with only 20 AB ! Sure, .385 looks good, but it's not like we're talking about a guy like Bernie Williams, Mantel, Rickey Henderson or Barry Bonds and has hundreds of postseason ABs !
     
  15. Brian Perry

    Brian Perry Cinematographer

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    Tom,

    Agreed.. I included that not so much as a positive, but so it couldn't be used as a negative (as in, "look at Greg Maddux or Dave Winfield in the postseason--they sucked when it mattered most.").
     
  16. Bill J

    Bill J Producer

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    I've been hoping that Andre Dawson would make it in someday. He was a great all around player; it's a shame he has only been getting 50 percent of the votes.
     
  17. DanielCo

    DanielCo Stunt Coordinator

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    I just wanted to add a bit about Bert Blyleven here. He had 287 wins and was 5-1 in the post season. He had the greatest curve ball I ever saw and struckout 3701 batters, good for 5th on the list. He was in the top 5 in strikeouts 13 times! He is 9th in shutouts, and led the league 3 times in that category. A great workhorse pitcher who took a pitch that most people call junk, and made it a strikeout pitch.
     
  18. MattBu

    MattBu Stunt Coordinator

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    Should be:

    Pete Rose.

    NOTHING he could do can over shadow over 4000 hits and a clutch player that won multiple world series titles and was a catalyst for each of those teams wins.

    And I love Eck, I have a signed photo from him.
     
  19. Lew Crippen

    Lew Crippen Executive Producer

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    At this point Rose is not eligible for consideration.
     
  20. JamieD

    JamieD Supporting Actor

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    I think it is an absolute crime that Joe Carter, in particular, and Dave Stieb got less that 5% required. I am still disturbed by that.
     

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