Barry Lyndon (1 Viewer)

[Mike Broadman]

One of the feelings I get from Barry Lyndon is that it's so much like a painting, looks so "perfect," that it's a mockery of itself. It's as if Kubrick is saying, "Ok, so you like fancy-schmancy aristocrats, eh? Alright, I'll give you the fanciest, prettiest aristocrats and settings you can imagine." And he does so. But it isn't beautiful, and doesn't make me want to be there. It's ugly and stupid. A good example is the gambling scene at the end of the first part right before Mrs. Lyndon goes out for a some "air" and Lyndon courts her. Everyone just looked so awful, even though they were the upper crust of society all decked out in their best.

Kubrick somehow finds a way to throw in a sneering, mocking attitude in movies where it wouldn't come through in other situations. Am I the only one who wanted to punch HAL's right in the eye before he even did anything wrong? Or got annoyed by the happy family at the Outlook before Jack went nuts? I can't think of any other director who can do that.

And the score was, as previously mentioned, perfect. I love they used the same piece of melody in various situations in different ways.

 

[Ken_McAlinden]

I am willing to bet that Kubrick would have found Wilder's statement about his methods on Barry Lyndon very funny. I wonder why some of us cannot? Kubrick always wished he could work faster like some other directors, but he remained compulsively meticulous to the end. He was aware of this and apparently had a sense of humor about it.

Regards,

 

[george kaplan]

I guess I shouldn't give you guys the longer version

 

[Jim_C]

I'm glad to see this thread. I haven't been able to decide whether or not to pick up this DVD. Now I know that I have to. Sounds excellent.

 

[Gary Tooze]

Hey Evan,

I disagree with your notion that no artist would demean the work of another.

Perhaps I phrased that innacurately... lets just say I don't have a lot of respect for an artist who would demean the work of another... because what it all comes down to its subjectivity... Wilder has made some entertaining films, for some, but not for all... I think his statemnet cheapens his image in my mind, but he obviously felt that way, and I guess that is the problem... others might be fascinated by Kubricks dedication and work ethic... I don't know... its a tough one... but I DO appreciate Tarkovsky and Dryer's stance in my examples, although I may not understand their motives or reasons... sounds like the work of a true artist to me... not someone intent on always trying to fool the audience... big difference there... illusionist, over artist... hmmmm...

 

[Ken_McAlinden]

Gary,

In what way does the quote from Wilder demean Kubrick's work? He is chiding his methods. If there is more to the quote beyond what was presented, that's not what anyone is talking about here.

Regards,

 

[Jack Briggs]

"...It's ugly and stupid..."



In your opinion.



The director was always making a point, and he was a stickler for extreme accuracy. Which is to say that the uppercrust society he was portraying was as accurate in look as he could achieve, based on the historical record. You are, in effect, criticizing the way people of the eighteenth century looked.

 

[Mike Broadman]

Jack, you misunderstood. I'm not saying that the clothes and makeup are what look stupid. It's the attitude, the "ambience." It's difficult to explain.

I've seen other recreations of that time period in film, stage, and documentaries that are supposed to be as accurate. When watching those, a person can get a feeling of awe, or appreciate their life.

I did not get this feeling from Lyndon, which I think was the whole point.

I'm probably doing a piss-poor job of explaining what the hell I'm talking about, so I'll just cut my losses and run away...

 

[Jefferson Morris]

Am I the only one who wanted to punch HAL's right in the eye before he even did anything wrong? Or got annoyed by the happy family at the Outlook before Jack went nuts? I can't think of any other director who can do that.

This vaguely mocking (though never entirely unsympathetic) tone towards the characters pervades a number of Kubrick films, and often creates interesting paradoxes in emotional response.

Witness Alex's writer victim in A Clockwork Orange--we want to feel sympathy for him (particularly as he's forced to witness the rape of his wife), but the grotesque and ridiculous way in which he is presented later on makes this rather difficult. Despite his vile actions, Alex remains the most engaging, sympathetic, and even normal, character, as we're presented with the story through his eyes.

Thus, we're put in the position of sympathizing more with the criminal than the victim. And that, perhaps, was Kubrick's twisted message about the seductive power of first-person narrative.

As for Barry Lyndon, I'm still waiting for that revelatory viewing. The film just doesn't involve me much at this point, although its status as Kubrick's most "underappreciated" masterpiece seems to grow every day, particularly in forums like this. I own Warner's nearly unforgiveable first attempt at transferring this film to DVD, so I suppose I'll give it another spin when I have the time.

--Jefferson Morris

 

[Jack Briggs]

Mike, please forgive me. I understand what you're trying to say. Yet, even here, we must remain subjective and human. To wit: My take is that the garden scenes and the shots of Lady Lyndon's manor are stunningly gorgeous. And the gambling scenes, where everyone has the makeup on and all, are extraordinarily beautiful. To me at least.
Amazing film.
As for punching out HAL's red eye: go ahead and make his day!

 

[george kaplan]

OK. I put in the Billy Wilder quote cause someone brought up the candles, and I thought his quote was funny. Some here have construed it as disrespecting Kubrick. So, in the interest of fairness I am including more. It would take way too long to type in the whole interview, but I hope people see that Wilder did think highly of Kubrick. BTW, this was prior to the release of Eyes Wide Shut.

I love all his movies. Kubrick, he was a wonderful director...(more including the candle quote)...that's the only Kubrick picture that I did not like...The first half of Full Metal Jacket was the best picture I ever saw. Where the guy sits on the toilet and blows his head off? Terrific. Then he lost himself with the girl guerrilla. The second half, down a little. It's still a wonderful picture. You know, if he does a thing, he really does it. But this is...this is a career to discuss. Every picture, he trumps the trump. These are all pictures any director would be proud to be associated with, much less make...(discussion veers towards The Bicycle Thief, Wilder praising it, then he is asked about Dr. Strangelove)...

Oh, I love that. That's one of my favorite pictures, Dr. Strangelove...It was a wonderful picture, but so was Lolita. She was a little too old. He had to make a little sacrifice there. I hear they've remade it again, getting the character's ages closer to the book. I'm ninety-one, I'm the right age. (laughs)...

(he then tells a story that has nothing to do with Kubrick, but I'm going to include it anyway since I'm typing. He's talking about the preview cards for Ninotchka)...

We were previewing Ninotchka, and Lubitsch took the writers along too...outside in the lobby there, a stack of cards, with the audience invited to put down their thoughts...Lubitsch takes the cards...and he starts reading, "very good", "brilliant"...twenty cards. But when he comes to the twenty-first card, he starts laughing as hard as I ever saw him laugh...I have the card - "Funniest picture I ever saw. So funny that I peed in my girlfriend's hand."

 

[Ken_McAlinden]

The vibe I got from Barry Lyndon was that the ugliness was entirely in the actions/behaviors/minds of the characters, but the surface was like a beautiful painting. It sort of did for 18th century European nobility what David Lynch likes to do to 20th century small town America (Lynch's paintings were by Norman Rockwell ). The unwillingness/incapability of some characters to grasp this is what allows Barry to press his advantage at certain points.
Regards,

 

[Mike Broadman]

My take is that the garden scenes and the shots of Lady Lyndon's manor are stunningly gorgeous. And the gambling scenes, where everyone has the makeup on and all, are extraordinarily beautiful.

Of course. They had to be, in order to highlight the ugliness of people's nature. It's as if they're so beautiful, that it's ugly.
Like that scene where Mrs. Lyndon and her son discover Barry with the maid in the garden. Everything looks gorgeous: the garden, the sky, the people. Everything was classy, aristocratic, polite. Barry and the maid were in the distance, so it doesn't look sleazy. But it "feels" sleazy, and ugly.
See, this is why I don't write movie reviews. I just watch stuff and like it.

 

[Jack Briggs]

Mike, I'm finally getting a clearer picture (better signal?) of what you're saying. And I see your points. And once again, I must apologize for my misunderstanding. JB

 

[andreasingo]

Mike, that's exactly the same feeling I got. Just watch out for the scene where Barry tells his son those horrible bed-time stories...

 

[Allen Skurow]

Demanding satisfaction - canvassing Kubrick's 'Lyndon.

PART I

BY WHAT MEANS STANLEY KUBRICK

ACQUIRED THE STYLE AND TITLE OF

SOVEREIGN DE CINEMATIQUE

Scorsese couldn't do it. Spielberg? Nope. Kurasawa? Uh uh. Hitchcock,

negatory. What is it? The mastery of diverse movie genres.

So here you have it - often attempted, never duplicated -

Kubrick's septuple crown of cinema:

War - Paths of Glory

Sex - Lolita

Horror - The Shining

Crime and punishment - A Clockwork Orange

Science Fiction - 2001: A Space Odyssey

Comedy - Dr Strangelove

And

Period piece - Barry Lyndon - surely among the finest ever put to celluloid.

PART II

CONTAINING AN ACCOUNT OF THE

FORTUNES AND ATTAINMENT

WHICH BEFELL 'BARRY LYNDON'

Herein Kubrick has assembled a dream team of production, costume, makeup, and set designers, cinematographer, editor, composer, and actors. Their contributions cannot be underestimated, as well as the skill with which they were assembled by producer Stanley. But, of course it's all for naught if you can't nail the shoot and carry it through to post. No problemo. Here S.K. is at the top of his game.

The film features scenes and shot sequences that are directly modeled after period oils by Gainsborough, Dayes, Hogarth, Watteau, and Fragonard, among other European masters. And one could easily imagine freezing dozens of the immaculately composed shots from the movie, and painting/framing/walling a museum wing with them (a well-deserved Oscar here for long time Kubrick cinematographer John Alcott.)

And indeed, the entire proceedings can be seen as the extrapolation of events before and after the stasis of an old photograph, drawing, etching, or painting. And it's from a formidable palette that the maestro applies his

brush-strokes. The understanding of scene subtext, nuance, pacing, and pitch is complete here...consummate, and he is able to hold a candle up to these character's hearts and souls. It's pure film making.

Highlights:

- Sublime narration, by Michael Hordern, conveys a

dispassionate, inevitable, melancholy to the proceedings.

- Brilliant contrasting of genteel, polite proclamation/interaction with seething rage, spattering resentment, and physical/ballistic violence is a masterstroke.

- Marisa Berenson lies languidly, semi-nude in a tub. Boredom, betrayal, resignation, and desperation freeze her face practically out of the plane of the film and into a two dimensional mask of stoic misery.

- A convivial cotillion of chamber music explodes into brutal chaos as Lord Bullington confronts Barry's treacherous, tyrannical patriarchy.

- An epiphanic, extended dueling set-piece in a barn. Powder white pigeons flit about the dusky autumnal dawn air. Their wings flutter a warning - their coos a prayer. Crucifixes carved in the masonry are naught but holes in the wall - for there is no sacrament here - no sanctuary. Draw your pistols and take your marks...exact your satisfaction or your severance...and the devil take you...the devil take you all...

And in a glaring omission, academy boobs snubbed Lycra Spandex's uplifting performance - in a dual role - as a push-up bra in the category of breast supporting actress.

EPILOGUE

IT WAS IN THE REIGN OF GEORGE BUSH THE II

THAT THE AFORESAID DIRECTORIAL PERSONAGES

LIVED AND QUARRELED; GOOD OR BAD, HANDSOME

OR UGLY, RICH OR POOR

THEY ARE ALL UNEQUAL NOW

 

[John Watson]

What, no western?

 

[BarryR]

Well, THE SHINING >did< have a passing reference to Indian attacks!

 

[Evan Case]

For the sake of argument regarding genres, check out the filmography of one Howard Hawks: Action, Sports, Comedy (some of the best of all-time), Crime & Punishment, Gangster (some of the best of all-time), Film Noir (some of the best of all-time), Musical, Western (some of the best of all-time), War, Romance, "Modern" Historical Epic, "Ancient" Historical Epic, Safari/Wildlife, and Science Fiction (allegedly, anyway). Perhaps others I'm forgetting.
For me, it's not genre diversification that makes a director great but rather what they do with their genres of choice. IMO, Kubrick does this better than any director in history, save one (Alfred Hitchcock).
Oh yeah, did I mention that Barry Lyndon might be the most beautiful live-action color film ever? Probably my second favorite Kubrick film.
Evan

 

[Dome Vongvises]

I tried watching Barry Lyndon once. I couldn't do it.....because school got in the way.
:p)
Seriously, I saw about fourty-five minutes and loved every single one spent. It was highly unfortunate I couldn't finish it because of one interference or another.