Bad DVD picture on HD TVs

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Tom Brennan, Jul 5, 2002.

  1. Tom Brennan

    Tom Brennan Screenwriter

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    A couple of friends have large 16x9 RP HD ready TVs and DVD pictures look pretty bad on them. Last night we were watching Blackhawk Down on this guy's huge Mitsubishi and it looked pretty bad. Now I'm not up on this HD business but I knew right off the bat he had his aspect settings wrong. So we got that right but the picture was still fuzzy and poorly defined. I also went through the menu and set color temperature etc. for a better picture but this thing didn't look very good. When I went home I popped the same movie on with my 36" Vega with the 16x9 mode on and the picture was so much more detailed and crisp. Are these HD ready TVs doing something hinky to plain old non HD signals? Would running the DVD progressive instead of interlaced make a difference? Would that make so much difference as to go from bad to great? What's up?
     
  2. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    Sounds like the RPTVs needed more calibration than a few tweaks from the user controls. Was the convergence properly adjusted? Too, remember that you may simply be more used to watching a smaller direct-view set. They appear sharper, and there's all that light output. But direct-views are not necessarily sharper; a well-calibrated HD-ready RPTV should offer more resolution than an NTSC-only WEGA.

    If the DVD player has a really good deinterlacing chipset, along with good 2:3 pulldown, its output alone should suffice and perform better than the RPTV's internal line doubler.

    Ultimately, though, I think that big Mitsu simply needs a good calibration--complete with graycale adjustments made from within the service menu. It should blow an NTSC-only WEGA away.
     
  3. BruceSpielbauer

    BruceSpielbauer Second Unit

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    It really sounds as if this Mits needs a serious calibration. Yes, a progessive scan DVD player would improve things a lot. However, even an standard interlaced DVD signal should provide a very impressive picture on any Mitsubishi HDTV ready RPTV. I have a 65" Mits, and I have watched Blackhawk down both interlaced, and with Proessive Scan. The former looked _great_, the latter caused the "Wow" factor to kick in.

    To be fair, though, I have tweaked mine, performed extensive Avia calibrations (repeatedly), fixed the red push issue (completely), focused, done convergence, and a few other lesser do-it-yourself tweaks as well.

    -Bruce
     
  4. Jim FC

    Jim FC Stunt Coordinator

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    Is your friend's DVD player set to 16:9 output? If the DVD thinks it's hooked up to a 4:3 TV and sends the signal out that way, the stretch modes on the TV will make it look even worse. Definitely go with a progressive scan DVD plaeyr on a TV this big, and get good cables to hook it up. There's no reason this TV should look anything other than outstanding on DVD if properly hooked-up and calibrated.
     
  5. Tom Brennan

    Tom Brennan Screenwriter

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    Thanks Fellas. I think I'll go over and we'll check the convergence. This TV looked SO bad, way worse than simply being out of accurate brightness, color temp etc., I know what that looks like and this is way worse, VERY poor definition, things look "blobby". Another friend has a big Mitsubishi like this and it looks like Hell too.
     
  6. BruceSpielbauer

    BruceSpielbauer Second Unit

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    Tom:

    Things to check...
    The settings on the DVD player (does it know you have hooked it up to a wide-screen? They have a setting where this must be done). Also, some DVD players have built-in stretch and zoom modes, which are NOT intended for long-term viewing, as they degrade the resolution a lot. Make certain no one had selected one of these.

    Check to see if the DVD signal is wired DIRECTLY to the RPTV. If not, try this, to see if it solves the problem. Is this a component connection, or an S-Video connection... By all means, make certain it is not a COMPOSITE (arggg!).

    The mode on the TV... is there any chance you were wacthing using one of the MITS' stretch or Zoom modes? This would cause a lot of loss of definition.
    Is the IRIS turned off? Is the "black level" turned off? Is the contrast below 40%? Noise reduction should be set to "Standard," and not "reduced." Where is the Color Temp? Is the sharpness turned way down? All these things should be done.
    The set should be set to "film" as opposed to "video," but that should not make that much difference, on its own.
    Those things are the easiest to address, without going into all of the service menus (something not to do on a friend's set, grin).

    -Bruce
     
  7. Tom Brennan

    Tom Brennan Screenwriter

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    Bruce---Yeah, all that 16;9, stretch mode, standard mode amd so forth business was set correctly (though not until I explained to the owner what that is all about) and I got the basic setup (color temp, black enchancer, brightness etc.) in the ballpark. I wonder if there's some circuitry in HD TVs that has a detrimental effect on non HD TV.
     
  8. Tom Brennan

    Tom Brennan Screenwriter

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    Bruce---Yeah, all that 16;9, stretch mode, standard mode amd so forth business was set correctly (though not until I explained to the owner what that is all about) and I got the basic setup (color temp, black enchancer, brightness etc.) in the ballpark. I didn't check how he had his patch cords from player to TV. I wonder if there's some circuitry in HD TVs that has a detrimental effect on non HD TV. The picture reminded me of that of a friend who bought a big ProScan RPTV with a built-in line doubler several years ago. That thing had a pretty messed-up picture too. That TV was setup using the Video Essentials LD but had a "jaggy" look and a washover of digital noise.
     
  9. Jan Strnad

    Jan Strnad Screenwriter

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    Tom,

    You don't say how large the RPTVs are. Naturally, the larger the picture, the harder it is to compete with a 36" direct view. If you were to blow your 36" picture up as large as these RPTVs are, you might see much less difference.

    You also don't mention how old the sets are. They do get better every year, and comparing an older set to a newer one isn't quite fair.

    There's nothing that I know of in an HDTV that would cause the standard picture to suffer. Others in this forum will surely know more than I do.

    All of that said, it does sound as if your friends' RPTVs have some calibration problems that can't be addressed without getting into the service menus which requires a professional or a very gutsy amateur.

    J.
     
  10. John Royster

    John Royster Screenwriter

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    yeah, somethings not right. DVDs should look stunning.

    Maybe your used to overly sharp, edge enhanced images on your TV direct view TV? HDTV RPTVs by their very nature have higher resolution and detail than tubes.
     
  11. Tom Brennan

    Tom Brennan Screenwriter

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    Jan---The Mitsubishi is less than a year old and is really big, I dunno the size but it's probably their biggest. With the Sony picture taking up as much of my field of vision as the Mitsu did the Sony looks MUCH better. John----No, my set isn't set up overly sharp, I've been into this since Beta Hi-Fi days and have my set setup as accurately as possible short of a professional calibration, Hell I had the setup laserdisc that came out BEFORE the Video Essentials LD. :) I wonder if there's some digital nonsense going with the set in question, it reminds me of the digital "gauze" noise I often see in darkly lit scenes on my digital cable.
     
  12. John Royster

    John Royster Screenwriter

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    Thanks for the clarification Tom. Sometimes you don't know where folks are coming from especially when they are accustomed to insanely sharp/blue images.

    My mits 65819 and rp56 combo produce a very film like image.

    So I still say something ain't right. Still trying to figure out what it is.
     
  13. Bill Lucas

    Bill Lucas Supporting Actor

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    Tom,

    How did you get the color temperature in the "right ballpark"? By eye? By using the predefined color temperature settings in the setup menu? Neither are accurate except in rare cases and with a very well trained eye. Just an FYI.
     
  14. Tom Brennan

    Tom Brennan Screenwriter

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    Bill---I went by the TV's menu. In any case this problem has litle or nothing to do with that, it's more of a noise-distortion kind of thing. Watching a couple of HD ready 16;9 TVs today in Circuit City I notived the same kind of problem, to a lesser degree, with DVDs as a source.
     
  15. Mark Larson

    Mark Larson Supporting Actor

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    It wasn't set to progressive? You should try it again, with a progressive input. I'm sure it'll make quite a bit of difference. Or you should use component inputs, at the very least.
     

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