Babylon 5: Season 1 street date and SRP (1 Viewer)

[Dave Scarpa]

Well at 40% Off (assuming You can find it at that)it would be $59.95 and that would be a decent deal

 

[SpenceJT]

I will be all over this
...like Londo on Br'Varre!:b
...like Garibaldi on Talia!

...like Talia on Ivonova!
...like anyone on Lyta!
Woo-hooo!

 

[John Berggren]

The SRP is pretty fair. I think this can be had for $65-75 without too much effort.

 

[Yee-Ming]

the official website says:-

Widescreen version Presented in a "matted" widescreen format preserving a theatrical exhibition aspect ratio. Enhanced for widescreen TVs.

not quite right is it?

how do you "preserve" the "theatrical exhibition aspect ratio" of a program that was never exhibited theatrically?

don't get me wrong, I fully support OAR and detest pan-and-scam, but by the same token let's be consistent: if OAR is NOT widescreen, we can't make it so and praising anamorphic widescreen when the original presentation was in 4:3 seems a bit hypocritical.

I believe JMS has said something to the effect that B5 was shot with 16:9 in mind (correct me if I'm wrong), but I just wonder if we'll have the same problem as in V, where despite Johnson's efforts, I feel that the cropped widescreen presentation is rather cramped headroom-wise and chins get clipped.

 

[Nigel McN]

I this instance it is certainly a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' choice.

 

[David Lambert]

how do you "preserve" the "theatrical exhibition aspect ratio" of a program that was never exhibited theatrically?

Go back and read it again. It says it is "preserving [rant]a[/rant] theatrical exhibition aspect ratio".

In other words, WB is telling us "we're putting it on this DVD in an aspect ratio format that is similar to that of a film". In other words, widescreen.

They never said it was shown in the movies. Just that it was formatted to LOOK like a movie. This is their new standard boilerplate to tell the widescreen-heads that the feature is 16x9. Smallville says that same thing, up in Canada there. :wink:

 

[Yee-Ming]

I get that David, my point is since the "original presentation" is 4:3, what's wrong with releasing DVDs with 4:3 presentation? it's fallacious to talk about preserving something which never was until it was specifically created for "preservation".

but in practice, my ultimate concern is whether the 16:9 framing will really work, or if it will feel "cramped" like it does on V. any thoughts?

 

[Andy_Bu]

I get that David, my point is since the "original presentation" is 4:3, what's wrong with releasing DVDs with 4:3 presentation? it's fallacious to talk about preserving something which never was until it was specifically created for "preservation".

I believe Babylon 5 was shot simultaneously in 4:3 and 16:9 (JMS was thinking ahead even back in 1994).

Babylon 5 for the last couple of years or so has only been shown in the 16:9 format.

I for one am very happy that JMS shot these in 16:9 to begin with (outside of the special affects I think), because I will enjoy the anamorphic widescreen on my widesceen set more than I would a 4:3 set.

Andy

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Widescreen version Presented in a "matted" widescreen format preserving a theatrical exhibition aspect ratio. Enhanced for widescreen TVs.

That incredibly clumsy wording is standard WHV boilerplate for widescreen releases. It has nothing, specifically, to do with B5. In this case they may have changed a "the" to "a", but I'm not even sure about that.
The show was shot on Super35 and composed for both 1.33:1 and 1.77:1. The CGI was designed (like shots in a 1.85:1 theatrical movie) so that the 1.33:1 frame could be matted to 1.77:1 by "padding" the top and bottom of the frame. To my eye most of the "cropped" CGI looks better than the original broadcasts because the composition looks better. (Much as most photographs, even those shot by a professional, benefit from being cropped to adjust the composition and direct the viewer's eye to the key elements.) The tiny minority of shots that composite CGI and live action are are mildly cropped. But on balance I think the benefit of opening up the wide frame in the 85% of shots that are pure live action far outweighs the "damage" done the composite shots. If you haven't memorized every frame of the series, and if you're paying any attention to the story while you're watching, I seriously doubt that you'll notice anything "wrong" with the widescreen versions.
This isn't a matter of OAR vs. Non-OAR, since the show was designed for both, and would have been shown in widescreen had that been an option in 1994. (Serious thought was given to doing this when the show moved to TNT in 1998, but no one was willing to pay for new widescreen masters.) It is a matter of the creator's original intentions. JMS wanted the show released on home video in widescreen. (He was talking about that on the internet before the show even went into production, before DVD existed. He assumed a VHS release would be 1.33:1, but he always intended the eventual laserdisc release - he was a collector - to be widescreen.)
Regards,
Joe

 

[Aaron_Brez]

"That incredibly clumsy wording is standard WHV boilerplate for widescreen releases. It has nothing, specifically, to do with B5. In this case they may have changed a "the" to "a", but I'm not even sure about that."

Totally.

After our last disagreement on this topic, Joe, I checked all my WB DVDs. In the event that we're dealing with a movie, whose theatrical exhibition was widescreen, you get "the theatrical" without exception (at least in my collection).

In the event we're talking about a reformat of a TV show into widescreen ("V", "V: The Final Battle", and apparently the new "B5" set), you get "a theatrical".

So it *is* a standard WHV boilerplate, it's just that the boilerplate differs between movies and reformatted TV shows.

 

[Yee-Ming]

Joseph:
thanks for the comments, that answers the main concern I had. when B5 was broadcast here, it was always in 4:3, and at the time I (naturally) did not consider whether 16:9 framing would have worked. from your answer it seems that it will work fine. whew

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

I've been watching the widescreen reruns on the Sci-Fi Channel over here for so long that when I look at my old 4:3 tapes, they look wrong.
BTW, U.S. residents might want to check out Link Removed as a source for the DVD set, as I mentioned in the "Coupons and Bargains" area. If I've done the math right the set should come in at around $55.00 USD delivered, thanks to a pre-order discount and the exchange rate between the Canadian and U.S. dollars. With standard shipping this might reach you a couple of days after street date, but for a better-than-40% discount off the MSRP, I'm willing to be patient. (I've bought from TAU in the past for big-ticket items like the X-Files boxed sets, and have never had a problem of any kind.)
Regards,
Joe

 

[Qui-Gon John]

I also wonder. Several of the shows were aired NOT in their proper order. I wonder which order will be used for placing the shows on the DVD's?

 

[Andy_Bu]

Joe,

Thanx for the heads up on TAU for the B5 set.

I assume they would not charge you until the set comes out this winter and as such, is there a risk of the exchange rates not being favorable towards US residents?

Andy

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

From The Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5

Due to production constraints and other factors, several episodes during the run of the series were delayed, shown later in the sequence than originally intended. The effect isn't major in most cases, but there are minor things that make more sense if the episodes are viewed in the intended order. JMS has given the ordering for seasons one and two his blessing.

They then give their "master list" of the episodes. However, very few of them make any difference in S1, and one of them actually works better for internal story reasons in the airdate order. (As they mention in a footnote.) The only discrepancy that makes any real difference (and this is a matter of foreshadowing, not story) is the placement of "TKO". Originally it was supposed to come later than "Babylon Squared", and only two episodes before "Chrysalis", the S1 cliff-hanger. Both "B2" and "TKO" contain subtle references to an event that takes place in Chrysalis, and running them in their intended slots allows them to "reinforce" this clue.
"Mind War", on the other hand, was slated for later in the first season, but the network was so impressed when they saw it that they wanted to air it earlier in the season, during the period when people tend to "sample" new shows, because PTEN thought this episode was likely to "hook" people. JMS had not problem with that in story terms, so it has always aired in the number 6 slot.
The only really serious "error" in the airdate order vs. the "master list" is in S5. Because the show was going on hiatus during the NBA play-offs JMS rejiggered the episode order to break up a long string of "heavy" episodes by putting the "lighter" "Day of the Dead" (script by Neil Gaiman) in the middle of them. This created a continuity problem because G'Kar and Londo leave the station before the episode, are there for "DotD", and then are gone again, returning to the station several episodes later.
It appears that this problem was fixed when the show went into reruns, and that the episode has since been aired where it was supposed to fall.
According to the Warner Bros. flash promo site for the discs, they are following the original broadcast order for S1. At this piont the show has been shown that way so many times that a lot of people would probably think there was something wrong if they were shown in a different order.
If JMS had any serious objection to that order, or any changes he thinks have to be made in subsequent seasons, I'm sure he won't be shy about speaking up. In the meantime I think we can consider this order at least acceptable to him, since he's never made an issue of it with regard to the rerun order.
Regards,
Joe

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

I assume they would not charge you until the set comes out this winter and as such, is there a risk of the exchange rates not being favorable towards US residents?

I believe they would be bound by the advertised price at the time the order is placed, morally, if not legally. I think they get a lot of business from bargain-hunting Americans, so I don't think they'd risk switching prices later, as that would tick a lot of people off. I'm not sure about the shipping price, however, as they do not express that in U.S. dollars, so there is a small chance that it could go up.
BTW, B5: Signs & Portents is now at #9 on TAU's DVD best-seller list.
Regards,
Joe

 

[Philip Verdieck]

I just ordered 3 copies from TAU.

 

[Rand]

"He assumed a VHS release would be 1.33:1, but he always intended the eventual laserdisc release - he was a collector - to be widescreen.)"
And as it turned out, the laser disc realeases were in 4:3. Not to mention released in a very strange order. :frowning:

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Quote:



And as it turned out, the laser disc realeases were in 4:3.






That's because nobody was willing to pay for new widescreen transfers, not WHV, certainly not Image. We finally got the widescreen version thanks - in a perverse twist of fate - to TNT of all people.

Follow me on this one:

TNT's exclusive contract for B5 was set to expire in February 2001. They didn't want the show anymore, they were only running it once a week - at 6 AM on Saturday mornings. The only reason they had held onto it back in 1999 was to keep The Sci-Fi Channel from getting Crusade and making it a success. (SFC wouldn't take the sequel while the original was still airing on a competing network - which TNT knew. So they demanded an impossibly high figure for the balance of their B5 exclusive to kill the Crusade deal.)

OTOH, they were still pissed of at JMS, and inclined to do whatever they could to screw up the future of the show. For that reason Warner Bros. insisted on total secrecy when they began negotiations with the Sci-Fi Channel to become the next home of B5 in the spring of 2000. Once a deal was struck they approached TNT about buying out part of their remaining contract, because SFC wanted the show to debut in the fall. This time TNT accepted a reasonable buy-out offer. (If they had tried to play hardball, SFC could have simply waited them out and started the show in March 2001 - and not have to pay TNT a dime.)

But, they weren't going to just let the series go. Somebody at TNT figured out that if they started running the show six days a week, and ran two episodes on a couple of Saturdays, they had just enough time left to run all five seasons one more time before Sci-Fi took the show over. (They ended, in fact, on a Saturday. The next night Sci-Fi aired "In the Beginning", and the series started that Monday.) They also managed to run all of the TV movies between April and September.

The idea was to have all the fans caught up on the show so that fewer of them would tune in when it moved to SFC. Nice, eh?

Seeing this, Sci-Fi decided they needed something new and different to counter what TNT was doing. That's when they decided they wanted to air the widescreen version of the show. And that's when Warner Bros. Television made the arrangements for new widescreen transfers to be made from the original elements.

Which is how Warner Home Video ended up with the widescreen masters they needed to create the DVDs without having to pay for them. That's been one of the things holding up the DVD release all these years. They knew that there was a lot of fan interest in the widescreen version - enough that they feared a 4:3-only version wouldn't sell. But they also knew a widescreen version would be expensive, and they had enough doubts about the show's appeal as it was.

Luckily for us, TNT decided to be spiteful bastards and try to kill the show's ratings on Sci-Fi.

Don't you just love happy endings?

Regards,

Joe

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

I was checking out another title on the TAU site this morning, and just for grins decided to check on their top ten list, where B5: S1 previously held the number 9 spot. I wasn't terribly surprised to see the 9 and 10 positions occupied by the LotR and Spiderman collector's editions. (I'm guessing these are pre-orders.) I figured that after a week of glory, B5 had slipped off the list. Not surprising when you consider some of the blockbuster titles that are on their way in the next two or three months.
I scrolled back up the page and was about to click on a link when I saw something out of the corner of my eye. Looking back at the Top Ten I got the surprise of my life. Babylon 5: Signs & Portents is the number one selling item at Total Action Universe this week.
Guess a lot of people read these threads.
Here's the full list:
1. Babylon 5: The Complete First Season
2. X-Files: Complete Sixth Season
3. 24: The Complete First Season
4. Blade II
5. Reservoir Dogs: 10Th Ann. Edtn. (Mr. White)
6. Back To The Future: The Complete Trilogy
7. Monsters, Inc.
8. Star Wars Episode II: Attack Of The Clones
9. Spider-Man: Collector's Set
10. The Lord Of The Rings: The Fellowship Of The Ring
Granted this is only one (relatively obscure) internet retailer, and the fact that they have the best price on this set for many people has been heavily reported, but that's still a pretty site. The set is outselling some very heavy competition, at least at TAU.
I think Warner Home Video is going to be very pleased when they see the numbers on this release.
Regards,
Joe