B&W vs Diva

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Ryan_SS, Feb 15, 2002.

  1. Ryan_SS

    Ryan_SS Extra

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    Ok Here is my dilemma. I went to a local audio store and listened to speakes

    Polk

    The RT series

    B&W

    600 series

    Paradigm

    Monitors

    I was looking for a full surround setup minus the sub. I ruled out the polk right off the bat and narrowed it down to the B&W and Paradigm

    B&W

    (4)601,(1) cc-6 $830

    (2)602,(2)601,(1)cc-6 $1000

    Paradigm

    (4) Mini (1)cc-270 $880

    I liked the sound out of the B&W a little better but my question is first is this good pricing and second,I am still looking at the Diva series and can any one give me a good idea of how (4) 2.1 and a center would compare to these setups

    Thank you

    Edited to add an apology for the missing ? on the title may be misleading if a mod could add that would be great
     
  2. Ryan_SS

    Ryan_SS Extra

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    anyone???
     
  3. Salvador

    Salvador Second Unit

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    I listened to all the speakers you mentioned. My impressions are:

    polk rt25i = boxed sound, not really impressive and i didn't like the aesthetics with the grill on

    602 v2= Very nice mids and highs but not much oomph down low, expensive

    mini monitor = muddy, was not at all what i expected after all the 'rave' reviews and comments it was getting
     
  4. Mark Guidry

    Mark Guidry Stunt Coordinator

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    I too was looking at the B&W and the Paradigm and went with the B&W. The same set as you...the 602(front),601(rear),and the cc. I paid 650 for the 602 and 450 for the 601 and 300 for the cc so the price you have is great! I did get them a few years ago so maybe that might be why I paid so much more (they have the Series 3 now). I LOVE them..the sound was much beter than the paradigm...I agree...they were too muddy. I do not know anything about the others you are thinking of (Divas) but my vote is for the B&W set like I have. I also have the Paradigm PW-2200 sub because it was beter priced (800) than a B&W sub of the same output. I am thinking of switching to the SVS + subs. I hope this helped! I also am running 85x5 from an ONKYO reciever.

    One more thing,...what is the price break down of the set for 1000? I have a friend that is looking for the 602's.
     
  5. PomingF

    PomingF Second Unit

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    Ryan, cheaphometheater.com has a shoot out review not too long ago of the Diva 2.1's vs the Norh & Axiom. You may want to swing by AVSForum to check out the unofficial Diva thread where you can find a link (on the FAQ page) matching you with local owners willing to demo.

    PF
     
  6. John Sturge

    John Sturge Stunt Coordinator

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    A better place to ask this question is a theAVSForum
    I bet you a cookie, everyone will say Diva is better and maybe one that says B&W is better...
     
  7. Rick Ewing

    Rick Ewing Agent

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    I don't own Divas, well not yet anyway. Divas are often described as a poor man's B&W. High praise indeed. If I was an B&W enthusiast, I don't think it's necessary to slam Divas while calling their owners fanboys. If a B&W is a Ferrari, Divas are Corvettes. Both are fast and fun to drive. One cost 1/4 or less of the other. One is the most fun you can have, price no object. The other is a hell of a lot of fun on the budget of mere mortals.

    I don't find most people on AVSForum saying that Divas are better than B&Ws. What they do say is that they deliver quality approaching B&Ws for a fraction of the price. Kinda like a Corvette. Of course, Ferrari still has no problems selling cars, even with the likes of the Corvette around. Same with B&W. Their quality is top shelf, the soundstage is phenomenal and the construction chases perfection while offering choices.

    Personally, I think the enjoyment of music or HT on a quality loudspeaker is a passtime to be enjoyed and shared. Yes, people will have their opinions one way or another, but Vive La Difference!

    Rick Ewing
     
  8. rodneyH

    rodneyH Supporting Actor

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    Rick, I think what is being said on the forum is that the Divas (at about $1500 IIRC) perform almost as well as the 802 B&Ws (a $8-9000 speaker-IIRC). and some people have said that they can't tell the 2 apart (which is funny to me since the drivers/tweeters in both speakers use TOTALLY different materials (silk VS metal tweeter, just as an example). The thinking is FINE, but you must also remember that B&W already has speakers that "almost" sound as good as the 802 for far less $$ (CDM7NT @ $2000, and CM4 @ around $1500). I think that people compare them to the 800 series b/c they look much like that series and use a rounded back on the enclosure and a true tweeter on top design, but when you do the research on how the B&Ws are built (which I have) you would realize that the build quality, materials and matrix are FAR superior in the 800 series and I would go on a limb to say that I bet that even the CDM and CM line are built better than the Divas (if you have serioulsy looks and knocked on these enclosures I think you would know what I am talking about.

    This isn't a slam on Diva, but just trying to be more realistic.

    The Ferarri to Corvette maybe a fair comparison (one being FAR more beautiful, more $$, more refined, WHILE all they really share is speed and wannabe looks (in other words-volume). j/k (actually the Corvette is a rip off of the NSX and RX-7 design combined, but that is another issue for a different day-tic)
     
  9. JoelO

    JoelO Stunt Coordinator

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    Hei Ryan,

    IMHO the Diva 2.1 is not in the same league as the B&W 601 or 602, price wise.. maybe. I never directly AB-ed the 601 w/ the 2.1, but I have listened to both speakers. I owned 4 Diva 2.1 & the C3. The reason I say the 2.1 & 601 is not in the same league because I AB-ed the 2.1 w/ CDM1NT ($1200/pr) & Dynaudio 42 ($700/pr) and the 2.1 really perform well against those more expensive speakers. Before I had the 2.1, I AB-ed the Dynaudio 42 w/ the 601 & the 602, and IMHO, the Dynaudio blows the 601 & 602 away. No comparison. You can read my comparison of the 3 speakers in AVS Forum, in the Diva best speaker ever part 2 thread. Let me know if you can't find it.

    As far as build quality & material goes, I know they don't skim down on the 2.1. Let me know if you can find speakers in your local dealer that is real-wood veneered and the price tag is below $400. The 2.1 has very sturdy & nice looking binding post (biwireable & biampable) that sure beats the CDM1NT. I've personally touched and knocked on the CM series spaker enclosure, and I can assure you that the Diva is just as nice!

    I know you guys might think that I say all this because I own the Diva, but really, you owe it to yourself to give the Diva a worthy consideration. Even the dealer told me they could sell the 2.1 for $800-$1000 easy if it has the B&W tag on it.

    Joel
     
  10. Rick Ewing

    Rick Ewing Agent

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    Rodney,
    Actually, I'm pretty much in agreement with you on the major points. B&W's are one of the most respected brands in loudspeakers. I would love to own a pair of 802s. But I can't afford to drop that kind of money (well I could but my wife might have something to say about it! [​IMG] )
    I go back to my Ferrari vs. Corvette analogy. A Ferrari 360 Modena and a Corvette Z06 have a lot in common. Both are two seater sports cars with V-8 engines, do 0-60 in the 4s and top out over 170 MPH. The Ferrari does it with a high strung 40 valve V-8, the Corvette with an "old school" OHV design. The Ferrari has a multi-link race designed suspension; the Corvette uses an innovative but still good plastic leaf spring in the rear. The Ferrari is hand built with a design from Pininfarina. The Corvette is built on a assembly line specially designed for it. Is the Corvette more beautiful, faster or more coveted than the Ferrari? No. Is the Corvette a great value? Of course.
    The reason why Divas are attractive to me is because they are getting a reputation of great performance AND great value. That's not a something to be taken lightly these days, especially in these economic times. Being able to buy 5 quality speakers for about $2K and without hopefully having to make sonic compromises with some other brands I've heard is nothing to be sneezed at. Of course, when I finally hear them, I might come up to a different opinion. We'll see. I'll get an audition soon.
    Rick Ewing
     
  11. PomingF

    PomingF Second Unit

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    John, you are right that I still say my B&W is better than the Diva (6.1) but the darn thing cost almost 5 times and weighs 3 times more than the Diva's. Go figure. [​IMG]
    PF
     
  12. Tony Genovese

    Tony Genovese Supporting Actor

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  13. Tony Genovese

    Tony Genovese Supporting Actor

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  14. JoelO

    JoelO Stunt Coordinator

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  15. Tony Genovese

    Tony Genovese Supporting Actor

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  16. Ryan_SS

    Ryan_SS Extra

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    Ok from what I have gathered from this thread, is that the Divas will probably sound as good as the B&W but will look prettier, well hmmmmmmm, The price on the 602's was 500 but that was in the package he had them marked for 599. I also went to demo PSB and now I am really cornfused. I liked those speakers alot also but wasn't able to A/B with the paradigm or B&W so I guess I am back to confusion.
     
  17. Tony Genovese

    Tony Genovese Supporting Actor

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    Fact is that speakers from the likes of PSB, Paradigm, B&W, Boston, Polk are all going to offer very competitive sound for the dollar spent. The Diva is supposed to be a particularly good value, especially considering the level of sound and fit and finish. I would argue that the Polk is also. Interestingly, Polk moved production to Mehico a while back to also offer excellent sound and fit and finish at very aggressive prices (even at retail).
     
  18. rodneyH

    rodneyH Supporting Actor

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    Ryan it sounds like you are confused because you are listening to a bunch of speakers that sound pretty "good" while they all offer slightly different tonal characteristics, I don't think that anyone could say that they sound "bad" (not even the elite audiophile). Speaker technology has really advanced (IMHO) in the past decade of so. In the past you just wanted a speaker that had good highs, mid range and srong bass. Now I think that speakers are at a new level where those those things are a given (for 90% of the speakers out there), and now people are talking more about soundstage, transparency, and other such characteristics that in the past were only talked about with the very high end speakers.

    If something sounds good to your ears, it doesn't have to cost $2000 or more---more power to ya. I think that we (me included) get caught up in much more than just how good a speaker sounds. The good thing is that now we can get speakers for just a few hundred $ and they can sound "good", this is great news for the person who isn't an audio elitist or the teenager/college student that doesn't have $10,000 to drop on a system. if i were you i would narrow it down to 3-4 pairs that you really like, take in some cds and compare them, and gp with your heart (ears).

    Personally this is the situation that mail order companies can excel in (ie-Divas), because I bet most people would get them and think that they sound like good speakers (which they probably are), but they can't be AB'd that way (at least not unless you already have a pair of speakers at home to compare them too) and to 90% of the people out there that doesn't matter, b/c they are are already satisfied in what they hear. And as long as a speaker doesn't "offend" somebodies ears (like Klipsch seem to do to some people) they can offer a great value to the consumer.
     
  19. rodneyH

    rodneyH Supporting Actor

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    I have to add 1 more thing. When you go to big box store realize that 90% of the time they have the base and treble turned all the way up, this makes it so the speakers sound more dynamic and larger, where at a small dealer they will just let the electronics pass the signal that is meant to be heard. This makes a huge difference in how it sounds.

    At the big box stores they usually use a receiver that can't be seen or if it can, many times it can't be adjusted, but ask the sales person to check it out. and don't be fooled by the gimmicks
     
  20. Russell W

    Russell W Agent

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    Hi Everyone,

    I hope you Guys don't mind me being a part of your discussion and I will refrain from making this a sales pitch. I do however want to address some of the statements being made here about Diva products.

    First, let me say we are honored to be compared to the B&W, Paradigm, and Polk Audio speakers. All of these are incredible leaders in our industry and are tough acts to follow and compete with.

    We(AV123.com/Mark Schifter, and Swan's) designed Diva to compete with speakers that would sell for 2-3 times more money. I like the Corvette analogy, except, the Corvette uses the same distribution channels and this prohibits Corvette to build a direct competitor to the Ferrarri...So much compromise is needed in the Corvette in order to maintain a competitive cost structure. What we do that's different is we have built our products completely off shore at a reduced price and market them directly to the consumer, thus bypassing the normal overhead structure.

    I don't believe you will find anyone who would argue that the components and build quality in Diva are second class...

    We feel the differences that you will find in our speaker vs all of the other great brands will be how they are tuned and in some cases the Diva's are built better. This is certainly subjective. What many people have found that own Diva's and have compared them to other speakers is they sound incredibly good and look incredibly good especially for the $$$. That doesn't mean that to EVERYONE they will think they sound or even look the best. But, if people are comparing these speakers to those that sell for 2-3 times the price this is what we designed the speakers to do...

    Our business model is to compete with speakers 2-3 times the cost. If they were only comparible to speakers at the same price on a dealer showroom floor that you can touch, hear, knock on etc... This would not be a value to YOU or anyone else. We must deliver greater than the expectation or we won't have a business.

    Thank you everyone for allowing me to address this thread.

    Please PM me if I can directly answer any question to compare our products with the other fine products that you all have mentioned.
     

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