B&W floor standers (600 series) vs. CDM1NTs (1 Viewer)

[Frank_S]

FWIW, here in the "Sillycon Valley", folks paid $250K for the Z8, people with lots of cash around here and only a few Z8's to go around.
I'd take the F360 over anything out there but my 330Ci will have to do for now.

 

[rodneyH]

Frank, how much do the 330's go for out there? As I uderstand it they are about 46k loaded, I have always wondered why people don't pay 3k more for the M3 (except they are very hard to get), the 330 is a very fine machine though and almost as quick as the old m3.

 

[Jeremy Hegna]

"I guess this game/disease can never end?"

Never....

You gentlemen are leaving the "Truly, Ultimate" sports car out of the equation....The Shelby King Cobra, something like 3 or 4 ever made, million, million and a half!!! What does the McClarren go for?

Jer

 

[rodneyH]

they haven't made the F1 in a long time, but i think they used to go for 1mil

 

[Frank_S]

Rodney, fully loaded 330ci here goes for $42k. The M3's get marked up by at least $5k because dealers get 1 alloted per month if they're lucky so that brings the price up to $58k which is $16k above my 330. I wanted an M3 but settled for the 330Ci.

 

[Jon_W]

Great discussion people. What are your opinions on the 604s3. I am bit of a speaker newbie. Is the CDM 1NT a better speaker than the 604s. What would the differences be between the speakers? Do they compare? I would assume the 604 could handle more bass than the CDM 1NTs, but I have an ASW 1000 sub so that is probably not really a concern. I mainly watch movies now but am looking to get into DVD-Audio soon. Currently I am using floorstanding JVC mains( so any upgrade will be a ear opener), B&W ASW-1000 sub, B&W DM301s, B&W CC6, powered by a Denon 3300.

What would be the reasons someone would buy the 604s. Or what type of system is are the 604 ideal for

Same questions for the CDM 1NT.

Thanks.

 

[rodneyH]

frank, that is what I figured. M3s are impossible to get, the 330Ci is sweet though.

 

[Bob-N]

Yep, F1's go for one meeeelion dollars even.

M5 is a fine car but again, a bit different feel when compared to the M3 (or E46's in general) and to me, still a bit out of my range. But 400hp isn't bad at all.

Problem with comparing a loaded 330ci and an M3 at a difference of $3k isn't really too fair. You don't get much (as with any 3er) std equipment. MSRP isn't too difficult to find here in the SF area now (you have to look/deal hard), but you'd still have to wait about 6-8 months to get one.

Also, 330's are being discounted off MSRP now whereas M3's are still going for MSRP, so that $3k gap is wider.

Bob

 

[Jeremy Hegna]

W"hat are your opinions on the 604s3."
I haven't heard them yet. They are $200 cheaper a pair than the older series 2, seem to have 4-5hz better extension down low....and cosmetically, IMO, the series 3 speakers are VERY, VERY nice looking.
"I am bit of a speaker newbie. Is the CDM 1NT a better speaker than the 604s."
As you can see in this thread, everyone has their own preference. You NEED to go to the shop that sells them in your area and audition all of your choices with Denon electronics. Denon/B&W are a very good combination.
"What would the differences be between the speakers?"
One is a floor standing sealed enclosure (604) while the other is a stand mounted, bookshelf typer...tweeter on top enclosure (CDM 1NT)
"Do they compare?"
They are two totally different speakers.
"I would assume the 604 could handle more bass than the CDM 1NTs, but I have an ASW 1000 sub so that is probably not really a concern."
The assumption would be correct, however, if you are a 2 channel music guy, IMO, there is no substitute for good floor standing mains. There are plenty of folks with opinions just the opposite. Your sub will definitely help out with low-end extension if you decide to go with a bookshelf sized main speaker. In the world of hometheater, I don't think you can go wrong with 1NTs all the way around or the Nautilus 805s for that matter
Jeremy

 

[Mark C.]

Jon:

The best thing you can do is listen to both speakers. I think they each have their unique qualities. If you're big into 2-channel and you don't want to incorporate your sub, then the 604s would be the first to look at.

I have the CDM1SEs, the previous CDM line, for my HT mains. I love these speakers for HT and casual music listening. They're mated with a Sunfire True Sub Jr.

I would strongly urge you to check out the CDM1NTs as well.

 

[rodneyH]

your point about the floor standers is well taken, I for some reason have the same opinion as you, but that being said, I have heard some very nice systems with bookselfs ("moniters" if you will), and the sub integrated well, but for some reason i felt more comfortable going with floor standing speakers (thus the CDM7NT). I don't even really know if they sound better, but there is something inside of me telling me to go with floorstanders, and since I always find myself saying "what if...." This is one of the reasons I didn't get the 805 (the $ for stands was a none issue since I already have VERY nive stands that my 602s were on)

ironically, there are others who swear that a moniter sounds better for whatever reason.

like you said, the BEST thing to do is to go and actually listen for yourself.

 

[Jon_W]

Jermey, I know the basic differences between the speakers but I guess I was asking what each speaker is designed for. If I chose the 604s over the CDMs would I be losing anything or gaining things?. Obvioulsy each speaker is designed for HT but beyond that why would someone choose one over the other. Jermey you mentioned 2 channel music which a don't listen to a lot given my medioric JVC speakers, but are there any other broad reasons someone would choose floorstanding over bookshelf, sans reasons like space availability.

 

[rodneyH]

603=larger/fuller sound (frequency responce), loader?

CDM1=better sound stage, accuracy, etc..

Just my opinion

 

[Bob-N]

Jon,

I second the advice given regarding doing a side by side listening session. I was at my HT store for about two hours listening to both 602/602.5 (forgot to add this one)/603/CDM1NT using some of my favorate (and memorized) music. I'm not so critical in an HT setting so I'm taking a bit of a leap and assume that it will be good for HT.

After listening intently and discussing much later with my salesperson (whom I trust), we agreed that when comparing the 603's to the CDM1's, at this price level, a good two way will be better than a 3 way floorstander if you use a good sub. To me, this translates into not having to "muck" up the sound coming from the tweeter/mid by adding a sub in the same cabinet. Maybe I haven't heard a good 3 way yet that doesn't "muddy" the sound of the tweeter and mid drivers.

In addition, with a separate sub, you have more flexibility to place the sub elsewhere. In a 3 way, you're stuck with the location of the sub.

Just some more thoughts. YMMV.

Bob

Edit: uggh, I didn't answer your question. I don't think that either ones were designed as either HT or music specific. It's all about what sound you like and size of speaker.

 

[Jon_W]

So Bob what your saying is to get the 604s is kind of pointless since I will be sending the bass the 604s extra bass driver outputs to my sub anyways. Right?

 

[rodneyH]

jon, most pre/pros and receivers you are able to do it a few different ways, 1.send ALL base to you sub,2.send bass to sub AND mains, 3.send NO bass to a sub (if you don't have 1) and all teh bass goes to mains. Hope that helps

 

[Jeremy Hegna]

"Jermey you mentioned 2 channel music which a don't listen to a lot given my medioric JVC speakers, but are there any other broad reasons someone would choose floorstanding over bookshelf, sans reasons like space availability."

I think if you upgrade from your JVCs to B&Ws, no matter what line-up you go with, you'll notice a quick turn-around in how much time you spend listening to music. The differences I think that we are all debating are very subjective and relatively minor compared to the difference you are going to hear by putting ANY B&W set up in your home.

The reasons I chose floorstanding speakers is for music as well as a massive front sound stage for movies. I am a quality bass loving fan like all of us, I have an SVS for the punch...but for music, the stuff I listen to...rock, jazz, blues...the low-end is only rarely in the 30hz range and floor standers like the 604s and the 7 or 9NTs will be able to produce a great sounding low end with this type of music. I am one of very few that refuses to set my mains to small...no matter how capable my subs are. Again, my SVS does a swell job for LFE and the low-end musical stuff. I believe you are going to find a new passion for 2 channel and maybe multi-channel music listening once you have B&W speakers. There are probably a thousand arguments for why saving money and using "monitors" as mains will work just as well if not better. Call me old-fashioned, but big floor standing full range speakers for mains is my vote. If I could use full range speakers all the way around, I would. Those of us with RPTVs understand why that is damn near impossible, if not highly expensive.

I guess it comes down to how much of the software you are using, whether it is music or HT, do you want the mains to be able to produce. What load you want to put on your subs and how much quality sub you can afford. To me, I still appreciate the quickness of the 6.5 inch drivers that a floor standing speaker can produce. The relatively large driver on a sub is much bigger and no matter how incredible the driver is...quickness cannot be matched by surface area half the size. OTOH, SVS subs are extremely quick, so are Velodyne and REL as well as a couple other spendy subs. If you can afford to get some quality thump underneath those bookshelves...it may be the way to go.

Jeremy

 

[Jon_W]

Jeremy I beleive you are completly correct when you say I'll listen to a lot more two channel music. Right now I use the Denon 5 channel stereo mode just to spread the music out so I don't just have to listen to those awful JVC's. Would you consider the B&W ASW 1000 Sub "quality thumb" or are talking a sub in a different league?

The lay out of my HT room makes it difficult to position speakers. Currently I have my floorstanfing speakers lying on their sides on shelves next to the TV. Does this effect the sound of the speaker or the sound field. I know that if they were lying on the floor than it would effect the sound, but given the fact they are off the ground is this not a problem. I think with my questions today I'm making myself out to be someone who is a lot less informed about HT than I really am. But whatever. Speakers just aren't my thing. Hopefully that will change. If I go for the 604s than I would most likely have to also place them on the shelves, so depeding on whether or not it effects the sound it might be better to go for the CDM 1NTs.

 

[Arron H]

I think that I would go with the CDM1nts rather than laying 604s or any other floorstanding speaker on its side. If space is this big of a factor for you, it seems like bookshelves are the way to go - unless you are planning on moving soon

 

[Pete Jennings]

Arron's right Jon. I would DEFINITELY go with the CDM1NT over the 604's in YOUR situation - no question at all. The 604's will NOT image correctly on their side. You will be much happier with the CDM1NT's and a sub. Try your best to isolate them if you HAVE to put them on the shelves. Use cones or something to decouple them.

Pete