B&W decision time (1 Viewer)

[Tor Arne]

I can recommend you save some more and get the CDM7-NTs!!! You wouldhave to buy stands for the CDM1s anyway which would bring the price closer to the CDm7s.
I have a pair of CDM7-NTs and I couldn't be more satisfied with them. I used a tone-generator to test bass-performance at low frequencies and I was thouroughly impressed. They handle 30Hz very well. I can even hear them well at 20Hz. I used the tone-generator to adjust the speaker-to-wall distance so that the bass is linear. These speakers are very picky with wall-distance, so experiment with the distance. The backside of my speakers is now about 50cm from the front wall. Distance to the side-wall is 100cm. They are angled toward the listening sweetspot.
I'm not kidding about the 30Hz. Optimizing the placement gives deep, linear bass.
Using a tone-generator is recommended, not only because you get to test your speakers, but because you learn to recognice different low frequencies. There are many freeware tone-gnerators for download on the web.
I use a Denon DVD-3801 receiver to drive them. The speakers are biwired.
For music they are lovely! Much better highs than the SEs BTW. I compared a pair of CDM1-SE to CDM1-NT and guess who won. I play lots of different music:
-Bjørk
-Bel Canto
-Madonna
-Massive Attack
-Prodigy
-Faithless
++
I'm going to buy a pair of CDM1-NTs or CDMS-NTs for surround speakers to replace the Mission M72 I'm using now.

 

[Patrick_T]

I'm a little confused

Wouldn't you still be in the same boat as you are now? Another set of new mains w/out matching center, surrounds?, etc..

Can't you just get a matching Snell center? I'm not sure how important 100% matching rear speakers really are if that's what your after and where the big expense lies.

Anyway if you go with the CDM1 make sure your happy with the sub blend if you plan to use this with music. The CDM1 is rolled off a bit already at 60Hz. CDM-CNT has better bass extension and is a very good center IMO. I plan to use three of them upfront for an HT application unless I'm swayed to the 7's or 9's

The problem is that with the Thiels I would want to upgrade the mains to the CS 1.6's as the CS .5 is not quite the speaker I was after but what I could afford at the time. The dealer has a 1 year upgrade policy. I was going to save up and move to the CS 1.6's. But, the least expensive center channel they make is way beyond my means, and there is no way I could use any of their speakers as surrounds. Going to the B&W will allow me a reasonable cost upgrade path as I decide to add the center and surrounds.

 

[Patrick_T]

Ok,

After an extended listening session this afternoon at my local dealer I am convinced once and for all tha the 7NT is the way to go. I had listened to both the 1NT and 7NT before, but never compared them head to head. The 7NT wasn't just the 1NT with more bass...it was the better speaker...up and down the frequency spectrum. To my ears the 7NT really has it over the 1NT. I guess it is decided...wait it out and get the 7NT.

Thanks

 

[Ned]

Having listened to both and living with the 1NT's since, I have to disagree with many of the other posters.

First of all, if you are planning to use this mainly for movies then you *WILL* be running either choice as *small*. So neither speaker would be getting under 80 or 100hz (depending on receiver) and it's the range between 40-60hz where the 7NT has more extension. So you are paying for extension you will not use or hear.

However, if you plan to use this system often for critical music listening then you will gain something in overall balance rather than hoping for a nice blend between 1NT+sub.

Neither the 7NT or 1NT will give satisfying bass output for action movies, if you have to wait months just to afford the 7NT and then you still have to wait many more months for a proper sub then I'd call that a poor choice. The 2 speakers are much more alike than they are different. Personally I'd spend my money on improvements that I'll actually hear rather than extension that won't cut the mustard for movies and won't be used when you do get a sub.

Just think about this - Why does the 7NT sound "fuller"? More extension. Then you low-pass the whole range where that extension occurs. Why will they sound any different now? Same tweeter, same mid-range driver, similar cross-over, same cabinet quality.

 

[Gordon C Jr]

Good point Ned.. I'd have to agree.. I am contimplating purchasing the same 7NT's to replace my 602's, but am stuck on this aspect. How much will this really improve the sound when I usually listen to HT

Another aspect that doesn't seem to be taken into account here is that Patrick lives in an apartment and bass extension and neighbors are usually not a formula for a happy life.

 

[Geo]

I have to agreee with Ned.............

If money is tight get the 1NT and a really good sub (SVS maybe) and you will not miss the 7NTs frequency extension at all. In fact 1NTs with a really good sub will sound better than the 7NTs with a crappy sub or no sub at all......... a lot better!!!!!!!!!!!!! movies and music

geo

 

[Chris Derby]

I was faced w/ the same decision.. sorta.

Along w/ a HTM-2, I ended up purchasing a pair of N805s (paired w/ 2 SVS20-39s) that will get moved to the back when I eventually get N803s. As good as the 7NT or N803 sound, I decided that it would be quite a hassle to cross them over at a different point for HT and music. Unless you have the ability to pick different crossover points for each channel, you might just want to stick w/ 80hz and the smaller speakers.

I'm quite happy w/ my decision.

 

[Mark C.]

Finally some voices are added to my cry in the wilderness.

Considering the 80hz cut-off, there would be no diminished performance coupling the CDM1NTs with a good sub versus the 7NTs with or without a sub. But, again, either speaker is top-notch quality.

 

[Chris Derby]

When you throw out the lower extension on the 7NT, what you basically net is the benefits of the FST midrange driver.

1NT set at small (80hz) + sub : will sound wonderful

7NT set at small (80hz) + sup : will sound like above w/ the possiblity of more accurate midrange reproduction

7NT set at large + no sub : you'll have your lows down to where the 7NT rolls off but lose the lowest end from the sub

7NT set to large + sub : w/o a way to properly cross this over, it will be hard to avoid unwanted boosting and cancelling.

Good luck!

 

[Steve_Ma]

It sounds like your mind is made up. I side with the 7s and do not believe you will be wasting the extra range, especially if you do any music listening.

That beind said....regardless of what you end up with, it sounds like you are doing alot of research and will be making an informed decision. Your system is gonna rock!!! I love my B&Ws and wish the CDMs were in my budget.

Good Luck,

--Steve

 

[Patrick_T]

Ok, like I said..I am fairly sure the 7NTs are the way to go...they sounded wonderful...Now, the only concern I have is room size. My sofa sits against the rear curved glass window...my sofa is curved and follows the window. The primary listening location is roughly where the curved glass window meets the back wall. My speakers will be on the opposite wall (pulled out a bit of course). The room is long...a living/dining combo that apartments are famous for...here it is below:



Now, the squares shown are 1 foot squares...so the room is roughly 13-14 feet deep and roughly double that wide....do you think the 7NTs will overwhelm that size space? I guess I can always do an in home demo..but I thought I would see what everyone thinks.

 

[Frank_S]

Patrick, the 7's will not be overkill. I had CDM7SE's in my room(11x17), now I have Nautilus 804's driven by an 8008BB Aragon amp(200wts per ch.@8ohms). Just try moving the 7's around, make sure you give them breathing room from the back and side walls. They will create an excellent soundstage if you do this. Enjoy!

 

[Vinny Petronio]

Hey Patrick,

Your room layout is very similar to mine and I run my 7nt's with no problems you may have to play with the positioning a little but they should be fine can you place a couch in that drawing and your home theater location so that I can give you some tips on placement it's really ironic how similar our rooms really are right down to the windows, doorway,dining and kitchen.

 

[rodneyH]

CHRIS,

I was just talking to a god freind of mine who is a B&W dealer. We got on the discussion of B&Ws and which speakers he prefers, and sells.

He tells me that he sells mostly 804 and 802s. I asked why not the 803s, he mentioned that for some reason they don't have the same characteristics as the 804 and 802s. I really don't understand it, do you know anything about this (it really doesn't make much sense to me)???

 

[Dan Steffen]

I am contemplating the 604 S2's, since the local dealer here only carries the 600 series (right now). Could you guys tell me the subtle differences between the 604 and the 7NT? I will be pushing these speakers with a Denon 3802 and have an SVS 20-39 sub on the way.

BTW, we also went to audition some Klipsch reference speakers. You should have seen my wife's face when she heard the RF-3's. It looked like she ate some putrid food!!

 

[Patrick_T]

Considering the 80hz cut-off, there would be no diminished performance coupling the CDM1NTs with a good sub versus the 7NTs with or without a sub. But, again, either speaker is top-notch quality.

man,

you guys are making my choice tough. I listened to the 7nt ant 1nt for quite some time and came to the conclusion that the 7nt really was the better speaker. It seemed to me fuller....and I thought it wasn't just more bass. I think the only way I'll be able to tell is if I go audition them again with a very nice sub put in for the 1NT. The store I auditioned them carries a few sub varieties...what do you think the most comparable to SVS would be? REL, Velodyne, B&W? I would guess the REL but would appreciate anyone elses opinion.

Thanks,

Patrick

 

[Mark C.]

Patrick:

Although I'm a huge fan of B&W, I'm not crazy about their subs. I have a Sunfire. I drool over the REL subs, but they're way out of my price range. A Velodyne matched with the CDM1NTs would be a great combination to listen to. Good Luck.

 

[Chris Derby]

CHRIS,

I was just talking to a god freind of mine who is a B&W dealer. We got on the discussion of B&Ws and which speakers he prefers, and sells.

He tells me that he sells mostly 804 and 802s. I asked why not the 803s, he mentioned that for some reason they don't have the same characteristics as the 804 and 802s. I really don't understand it, do you know anything about this (it really doesn't make much sense to me)???

Hmm.. Thats odd.

I spent a good deal of time auditioning these speakers when I made my purchase. I used some of the most difficult music I own. I found that I preferred the 803s over the 802s and the 804s. The 802s were really out of my price range, but I was curious as to what I would be missing w/ the 803. The 802 didn't seem to have the same detail in the lower end as the 803. I spent 3 or 4 hours trying to like the 802 better, but I just get couldn't over the fact that 803 would reproduce my music better.

If I remeber correctly, the 803s and 804s sounded identical w/ the exception of the lower end.

 

[Steve_Ma]

As much as I like B&W speakers...I am with Mark on the B&W subs. I have the ASW1000. It's a good sub, but there is certainly better out there for the same money or even less.

--S

 

[rodneyH]

DAN,

thats a pretty good story about your wife, actually I had a similar experience. I have tried to listen to that brand a few times to see why so many people like them, and EVERY time I go away having that bitter beer face. Even the sales said, "Ya, I know, but a lot of people like them and thats why we carry them".