B&W 602 S3 versus 603 S3?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by steve nn, Dec 6, 2003.

  1. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    I was watching PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN last night and I noticed a little distortion in some of the heavier material. Generally I am very happy with the DM 602 S3's up front with my LCR 600 but maybe I should consider moving the 602's to the back and going with the 603 or possibly the 604's in front? I would rather stay with the LCR 600 so the 600 S3 line is where I would like to stay if I can pull it off? I was planning on upgrading my SB and surrounds in April to four DM 601 S3's along with another sub but maybe I should consider a little longer term approach and go with the 603 or 604's in front and just use what I have for the SB until my wife gets used to the idea of me spending yet more $$ on myself.

    My HT is 2880 cubic foot (living room - dinning room situation) Denon 1804 / Three SVS 25-31CS+ / 50' big screen. Surrounds I run now I wont even mention.

    I did a search but could not find what I was looking for so I thought I would post and see if there were any experiences out there that would be a help to me in my thinking. I did notice the distortion was coming from the mains also and not the LCR. This is a very seldom occurrence but it is there none the same from time to time. The two movies that come to mind are LOTR I and POTC. I noticed when I upgraded to B&W and then Denon that it really helped with LOTR I. It's close to gone now but still just a little.

    My system is used for basically 100% movies and a listening level of -5 to -20.>It just depends on who is home.

    Thanks
     
  2. David Judah

    David Judah Screenwriter

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    Have you considered the possibility that it's also the amps in the Denon that are causing the occasional problem? LOTR:FOTR is very demanding and when you crank up that volume, the amps might not be up to the task of delivering enough current during the big transients.

    The 603s & 604s being 2.5 & 3 way speakers respectively will give you some help in the upper bass and midrange over the 602s, where the midrange driver has a wider range to reproduce(I think you're OK on the low end with the 3 SVS--did I read that right? [​IMG]), but I would also consider adding a 2 or three channel amp if you can.

    Good luck,

    DJ
     
  3. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    Thanks David. actually that was my first thought and I understand your logic but I disregarded that path on account of the material and at a low volume even. It is just a certain sound that will/might cause the noticed garbled effect. admittedly it still could be the receiver though? I will play with it some more and adjust the cross on up a little higher (just for this movie) and see if it has any affect? It is so seldom that maybe it should be of no concern but you know how it is.
     
  4. David Judah

    David Judah Screenwriter

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    Yeah, I know how it is; I had some other ideas, but they are unlikely since it even happens at low volumes and only on specific material(like driver damage or a room induced peak). Maybe it's just the disc?

    I like your set-up. I started out with 602s up front and their smaller center. Don't worry about the rears--I actually used Bose 301s, which I got for free, until I later moved the 602s to the rear and upgraded through 603s, 604s, and now the 9NTs. I also upgraded the center to the CDMC SE(replaced by the NT line). The 602s are ballsy speakers for a bookshelf, but I will say you will notice an improvement if you move them to the rear.

    I would recommend going right to the 604s if you decide to upgrade or the 705s(I guess they replaced the NT line)if you want to stick to bookshelves--it's quite a tweeter upgrade in the 700 line. I think I had the 603s for all of three weeks before I wanted to make the change to the 604s. The midrange is so much more open, but of course, you'll only notice it if you listen to them side by side.

    Tell your wife she deserves the upgrade.[​IMG]

    DJ
     
  5. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Hey Steve

    Oh the little pains of HT. Given that the problem has been limited to just 2 movies, IMO an Amp upgrad at this point would not be my first choice.

    Not likely, but maybe, "a certain frequecy at a certain amplitude-plus" is causing a resonance some where in/on the main 2 speakers themselves. Or even the stand or shelf they may be setting on.

    Addmitidly a shot in the dark, but worth looking into.
    You might try shuting off or down all channels & subs except the 2 mains and run it again, might make it easier to hear/locate where the problem is coming from. Is it still definitely coming from the main speakers?

    How low in spl volume can you play these 2 films and their problem spot/s, and they still continue to rasie their ugly head?

    I find it hard to belive with crossing the all speaks over to your 3-subs, at or around the 80 to 100Hz area, that lack of clean power might enter the equation. I would think the 1804 should/would have ample reserves to play the rather limited 80/100-Hz and above freqs asked for, even given the size room and end up straining doing it.

    Your suggestion in your email to me about stopping into the B&W dealer with your problem DVD/s and giving them a whirl on their goodies (same speaks), is a good idea. Just leave your money and C-cards at home for now! [​IMG]

    The results you find will be interesting and I look forward to your findings..

    Regards
    Bully Boy
     
  6. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    Hey' Bully Boy. Yes the credit cards and $$ will be left at home until April [​IMG] (Agreement with wife. No sooner no latter.) Our local B&W dealer is only a few miles down the road so I fear they might come a nocking if they catch wind of what I'm contemplating.

    I did try watching LOTR with out the subs powered up and all is good on it now and has been. Horrible experience with out LFE I tell you. This movie used to be my biggest problem with my previous setup as you know. On the movie Pirates of the Caribbean time stamp 2:14:22 and eight seconds beyond the sound that I am talking about can be found. I'm wondering if that is a intentional sound or am I experiencing a little something beyond my speakers capabilities?

    I will see If I can get a demo situation going on the 604's then David. I think possibly if I upgrade just a little and put my 602's in back (as much as I like them) It possibly will serve me better. I might just be looking for a excuse to upgrade and then maybe not? I'll just have to wait on upgrading the SB until next time around unless I some-how could get my wife to think it is all for her of course[​IMG]

    West
     
  7. CarlosM

    CarlosM Stunt Coordinator

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    Don't substitute the 602s for 603s.. go atleast to the 604s. I was not impressed with the difference in sound (and price) from the 602s/603s. As compulsive as we can be in these things, it's best to go for the better value to your ears and not short change yourself.
     
  8. HienD

    HienD Stunt Coordinator

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    I have a few music cd and movies where certain parts and scenes become slight garbled. Like a very slight clipping sound. Distorts for less then a sec each time at any volume level. Mostly happens with vocals. I have quite a few movies and cd that does this on me. I brought the same cds/dvds to the store to test and they do the same thing. With the same equipement or higher end stuff. Supposedly it has something to do with the compressing and encoding of the original material and is quite common. Someone posted something about that in this forum but can't seem to find it.
     

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