B&K Seperates or Denon 5803

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Tim L, Feb 24, 2003.

  1. Tim L

    Tim L Second Unit

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    I was curious if anyone has had any experience with or owns - either the B&K Reference 50 and the Reference 200.7 Amp or the Denon AVR5803. I was also wondering if it would be worth the extra cost to go with the seperates? Also do both units have DD 7.1 Discrete? Sorry about all the questions but one can never be to sure about making such a big purchase, thanks
    Tim
     
  2. Khoa Tran

    Khoa Tran Supporting Actor

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    it is worth it and more to go with the seperates....the denon may look like a convinence but the b&k will sound better immediately also it will provide more headroom and you won't have to upgrade your amp section when you later upgrade any formats....
     
  3. Josh Wolfman

    Josh Wolfman Stunt Coordinator

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    There is NO COMPARISON between seperates and a receiver- I don't care how much a receiver costs or how much it weighs. A receiver is wearing too many hats and has too much junk inside to tarnish sound. I love my B&K preamp!!!! Good luck.
     
  4. Nick V

    Nick V Second Unit

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    With my limited experience with separates vs. receiver, I would definitely suggest you go the separates route.

    BTW, there is no such thing as DD7.1 discrete. There is DD5.1 EX, where there is a matrixed 6th channel encoded into the left and right surrounds. If you have processor that has DD-EX or a proprietary matrix decoder, this extra channel can be decoded, and played through one or two surround back channels as a mono signal.

    There is on the other hand, DTS-ES discrete, but again here, this is a 6.1 format, where the surround back encoded channel can be played through one or two rear surround speakers.

    Both machines have both of these processing formats. They also both have THX Ultra 2 but I am unfamiliar with this format.
     
  5. Chas_T

    Chas_T Supporting Actor

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    Hey Tim,

    I'd suggest going the seperates route. I do not own either product line you mention so that part of me is unbiased. However, I have listened to all of those pieces in my travels.

    I've owned both receiver and seperates. IMHO, seperates is the best of choices. You can customize seperates with another amp or pre-pro in the future which is a nice feature that I truly like.

    You also have to take into consideration cost and even rack space as the receiver is an all in one box, where seperates is of course two pieces.

    If you can fit cost and space into your life, then the tradeoffs are worth the results with the components you've selected. NO disrespect to the receiver group, but with carefully selected components, it's the choice to make here.
     
  6. Tom Camlioglu

    Tom Camlioglu Stunt Coordinator

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    I would question the "many" in that sentence.

    (SGHT or HT) compared the Anthem AVM20/PVA7 combo to Denon 5803 and Pioneer 49TX ... 3 out of 4 judges preferred the separates.

    IMHO - The benefits to recievers are that they usually have more perks, and are "all in one" solutions but they don't match up on delivery compared to what a similar priced separate combo could do.

    Tom[​IMG]
     
  7. Yogi

    Yogi Screenwriter

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    I have listened to the 5803 and a Ref30/7250 combo and the B&K setup sounds sweet at all volumes. The 5803 gets grainy at loud volumes and is definetly inferior for 2 channel music. For hometheater at moderate volumes they are quite close though. If it were my money I would definetly go with the B&K setup.
     
  8. chung_sotheby

    chung_sotheby Supporting Actor

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    I would definately go seperates. At the very least, you have a great amp which you can always use that puts out 200x7, as opposed to the 170x7 (or more likely something around 125x7) that the Denon puts out. In case you have to upgrade again, you loss is only trying to sell the preamp and keep the amp as opposed to trying to sell the receiver. And if you look at any classifieds, the percentage loss in value of preamps is not nearly as close to that of receivers.
     
  9. Tim L

    Tim L Second Unit

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    Thanks guys for all the responses (keep em coming!) I have always read and heard about the ongoing debate about seperates versus receivers-even though in the last couple of years receivers have come a long way. As far as running low impendance speakers- this is not an issue- since I will be using the Klipsch Reference RF7 line with 2 sets of RS7 surrounds-which as everyone knows I'm sure that Klipsch are super effecient in this regard. Are there any reviews out there on the B$K seperates ? I subscribe to all the usual magazines- I may have missed this in one of the issues-any more information is much appreciated, thanks
    Tim
     
  10. ErichH

    ErichH Screenwriter

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  11. Albert Damico

    Albert Damico Stunt Coordinator

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    I spent an agonizing few months in deciding what to replace my Yamaha RX-V2095 receiver with. My issues with it were that, at times, it just lacked depth, especially in the center channel when there was a lot going on. It had no bass management to speak of, and consequently my sub seemed boomy at times. I couldn't put my finger on it, but it was just missing something in the front soundfield. I looked closely at a Denon 5803. I loved the features and sound. Itsounded a little "warm" to me, and did not seem to produce a sonically neutral sound. When I cranked it up, it seemed to lose some punch. I then listened to a Pioneer 49tx. Sounded great. Was less warm, to my ear anyway. It seemed to lose some punch when cranked as well. This is not to say that they didn't sound head and shoulders above my Yamaha, they did. I would have been happy with either. Then I looked at a B&K AVR 507. It solved all the problems that I perceived in the Denon and Pioneer. It was superb in power and sound and features. But at the price point I was now at, wanted to make sure that I was making the right decesion. I demo'd the B&K Reference 50 with one of their amps (I forget the model) What I found was that the Ref 50 seemed to be exactly the same, feature wise, as the AVR 507, a fact I have since confirmed. I looked at a variety of amplifiers. Parasound and B&K as two examples. The flexibility in seperated appealed to me and I loved the Ref 50. End of story, I ended up pairing the Ref 50 with a Sherbourn 7/2100 amp. The Sherbourn is a 115 pound monster that is a true monoblock construction with seperate power supplies, and seperate toridial transformers for each amp. So now I have a 7 times 200 watts at 8ohms amplifier and the B&K Reference 50 pre/pro. I got them about 10 days ago so they are still breaking in, but the sound so far is unparalleled. I have a pure 200+ watt power supply for each speaker and my speakers have come alive. Best part is that despite the fact that both retail for $5,400+ combined, I actually ended up paying much less. Actually the cost did not exceed the cost of the AVR 507 alone. So I believe I have a much better system and value and I am comfortable that my amp will last me decades. I am not an "expert" I am just a guy who loves movies and music. I want to add that both were purchased new from an authorized dealer (verified by both B&K and Sherbourn) so the warranty on both are great.
     
  12. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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  13. Tim L

    Tim L Second Unit

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    SO far I am leanign towards the B&K seperates- but one thing that has bothered me- is that I have read several times ( including the link you provided Erich-thanks)that went turning the B&K units on (receiver or Ref 50) that a popping sound is heard- and also when switching between components- can anyone that owns either of these units confirm this? This would be a major bummer if its true, and I'm sure after a short period of time I would grow very weary of this problem- I may sound like I am nit-picking-sorry- but forking over this kind of cash I just want to double check everything before I purchase. Again thanks for the info guys
    Tim
     
  14. Roger Kaufmann

    Roger Kaufmann Stunt Coordinator

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    Tim L,

    I have the Ref 50; I just got it a couple of weeks ago. When you switch between inputs, for example TiVo to DVD there is a popping sound but I don't find it a bother at all. That's just my opinion others may not like it. My advice is before buying ANY new piece audition it and find out for yourself at least then you are going in with your eyes open.
     
  15. Brian Corr

    Brian Corr Supporting Actor

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    Tim,

    I haven't confirmed this with B&K, but I've read that many high end components use manual relays instead of electronic relays. The manual relays pop when changing inputs but are "supposed" to be superior than the electronic ones.

    Another complaint is that you can hear a slight noise when no input is active and you turn the volume up. Apparently the engineers for B&K didn't want to add an additional circuit in the path to mute the volume when there is no input active.

    I would call and talk to B&K's techs to confirm as I've only read about these things on the net, but it isn't unreasonable to think that the above may be true.
     
  16. TomH

    TomH Second Unit

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    Separates.
    The price/performance of "flagship" receivers justifies the investment in separates.
     
  17. Logan G

    Logan G Agent

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    I recently upgraded my Denon 5800, which I had upgraded to almost a 5803 to the Ref 50 and 200.7 amp. I will say the Ref 50 is more complicated to set-up than the Denon. Take a look at the B&K Software Suite (free on their web site) which allows you to set up the Ref 50 in real time The software is outstanding and it will give you a great look at all the features the Ref 50 has to offer before you purchase it.

    I will have to admit that the difference in sound between the Denon and the B&K is very subtle. With DVD's I can't really detect any difference however, 2 channel music and SACD sounds sweet! I think, when you get to this level of components you have done well if you get a 10% improvement in sound. I believe the B&K has given me that 10%.

    Also, for me the flexibility of separates and the Ref 50 remote were positives.
     
  18. Jerry Klawiter

    Jerry Klawiter Screenwriter

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  19. MatthewJ S

    MatthewJ S Supporting Actor

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    There is NO COMPARISON between seperates and a receiver- I don't care how much a receiver costs or how much it weighs
    *******************end quote****
    In truth ,pre-pro-s don't draw much current or add much noise, so building them into the same case as the amp wouldn't (by itself) make a receiver "automaticly" inferior to seperates. What does make a large differance is that the overwhelming majority of rcvr mnfgrs do not build a great pre-amp stage and the amp designs are "current-limiting" unlike seperate amps which are almost always a non current-limiting design....there is at least one mnfg who builds the same pre-amp in a rcvr as it sells seperately and also employs a non current-limiting design in it's rcvr as well.......B&K....This unit can hold it's own with comporable seperates of similiar cost and power ratings.....
     
  20. EdNichols

    EdNichols Second Unit

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    Was reading through this and have a dumb question. What does IMHO mean?
     

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