B&K ref 50 vs Outlaw 950

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by BillyLown, Dec 22, 2003.

  1. BillyLown

    BillyLown Extra

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    Is the B&K ref 50 really worth $1,200 more than the Outlaw 950 ?

    Is the sound that much better?

    Features seem about the same. They both seem to have their quirks about them.
     
  2. Stephen M

    Stephen M Stunt Coordinator

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    It is much better IMO. However, you should try each in your own system to see which is better.
     
  3. Donnie Eldridge

    Donnie Eldridge Supporting Actor

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    Features IMHO are not the same

    Ref.50
    THX Ultra II Certified
    Hometheater Master MX-700 universal remote
    Balanced inputs and outputs
    notch filter
    3 component inputs
    video bandwith 100mhz+
    hardware and software upgradable
     
  4. Michael Mohrmann

    Michael Mohrmann Screenwriter

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    Also:

    8 digital coax inputs (vs. 2 for the 950 - too few)
    Presets feature
    built-in tuner
     
  5. MattBu

    MattBu Stunt Coordinator

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    This is worthless junk. It would be the same as me starting some kind of Matt Certification. If I gave Outlaw the extra money to waste on THX Certification they could get it, they just choose not to waste their money on it.
     
  6. Donnie Eldridge

    Donnie Eldridge Supporting Actor

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    In your opinion. However, to many people it is important which is why I listed it.
     
  7. Stephen M

    Stephen M Stunt Coordinator

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    I agree with Donnie. THX certification is important to a lot of folks who are looking for a pre/pro and this update allows balancing two subs which is significant for some people. BTW, I tried the Outlaw about a year ago and I like the B&K 30/307 a lot better for reasons set out above by other posters. I thought it sounded better too. YMMV.
     
  8. Ernest Yee

    Ernest Yee Supporting Actor

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    Holy crap - I didn't realize that the Ref 50 came w/ a MX700! Hmmm - damn this upgraditis bug! [​IMG]

    Although i would still like at least an option to turn off the popping noises.
     
  9. Alan Galbraith

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    Many pre's pass the THX certification specs, but manufacturers dont pay for the licensing. so beware of relying on that cert logo to tell you if an pre is good or not.

    I'm not saying that the Outlaw passes this particular cert spec, I'm just throwing that out there.

    P.S. the licensing aint cheap, and its the same whether you produce 100 or 1,000,000 units.
     
  10. MattBu

    MattBu Stunt Coordinator

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    Many people obviously don't understand what it is. They are obviously confused and believe that it's some sort of feature.
     
  11. NickSP

    NickSP Supporting Actor

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    You mean yours because eventually it is the end user to which it is tagged! [​IMG]
     
  12. Michael Mohrmann

    Michael Mohrmann Screenwriter

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    Actually, THX Ultra 2 is a feature. As an option, it allows for 7.1 output from 5.1 sources (and not the so-called "copy sides to rears" shortcut). It also has an option to incorporate boundary gain compensation when using one or two subwoofers.

    Michael
     
  13. John-Tompkins

    John-Tompkins Second Unit

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    I believe your the confused one..as Michael stated it IS a feature.

    Man, some things never change around here..[​IMG]
     
  14. Bill Polley

    Bill Polley Second Unit

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    THX is a certification. Having Lucasfilm label a product as "THX certified" brings a certain...status...to a component. Lucasfilm certifies that they have found the branded component to meet certain standards. For a manufacturer to get this certification, and thus the logo on their product, they pay a HUGE fee. Many products meet or surpass THX certification, but are not labeled as such because the manufacturer chose not to pay for the testing and licensing. THX ULTRA 2 is no different. THX ULTRA differs from THX SELECT by the size of the room it is recommended to be in. THX ULTRA is for large rooms. THX ULTRA 2 is a certification for extra rear channels. It is a certification, ensuring that THX ULTRA 2 branded equipment meets Lucasfilm's standards for playback of a 7.1 system in a large room. It also regulates how these systems must function in ease of setup, positioning, etc. It is not a feature set or a specific computer chip.

    It is not a feature...it is a label purchased from Lucasfilm, who sets standards and certifies that these standards are met or exceeded. Read about the different THX certifications (and yes, Lucasfilm calls them that) here

    Many manufacturers meet or exceed these specs, but choose not to pay for licensing.
     
  15. Richard_B

    Richard_B Stunt Coordinator

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    BillyLoan,

    The B&K unit you are asking about is a very fine piece of equipment. The Outlaw unit is also a very nice unit especially for the price. If you match it with an Outlaw amp then you have yourself one heck of a system.

    Do both units have the features you need?

    Do you have the extra $1200 to spend?

    Do you already have an amp? If so what kind? If not would you rather use the extra $1200 towards an amp? Or maybe a new Sub or Speakers or DVD player or etc....
     
  16. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    Bill P.
    THX[be it Ultra or Select] is a feature on Pre/Pros.
    It's parameters are written into a DSP chip,and digitally manipulate the signal to perform these:
    Re-Eq
    Timbre Matching
    Adaptive Decorrelation
    LFE/Sub Peak limiter
    Subwoofer boundary controll

    Yes those are part of a certification program,but those are active features when you choose the THX playback modes.
     
  17. Bill Polley

    Bill Polley Second Unit

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    So a THX component will EQ my speakers to my room, guaranteeing me a perfect timbre match of my speakers? It will automatically know what my sub is capable of and limit its output to its precise maximum? It will turn a mono surround into all-enveloping stereo rears?

    No!

    Lucasfilm certifies that THX certified speaker systems (such as the tiny Klipsch computer speakers) are timbre matched to each other. Lucasfilm also certifies re-EQ, an EQ curve that the company deems to be the needed frequency response curve to watch movies meant for huge theaters in the small confines of our homes (which many non-certified processors also provide). Mono surround into a believable stereo surround...Dolby Labs well known Pro-Logic II? So these products carry both PLII and a special THX chip? Or does Lucasfilm just certify that the product performs the task up to its standards? Sub limiting? All that I have seen have a settings level that the user defines, and from what I have read here on the forum, has been a problem with many users who can't figure out why their big sub doesn't really thump!

    Maybe I AM wrong. But I can honestly say that I have never seen a chip in the inside of a processor that says "THX" on it. And I can't say that all of the Ultra II certified products come with a mic and an auto EQ and delay program built in. Lucasfilm does certify that all the products that carry the logo are capable of performing these tasks, and that the manufacturer has followed their guidelines and provided the neccessary features.
     
  18. Ernest Yee

    Ernest Yee Supporting Actor

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    Bill Polley: when you get that THX certification, you can also use THX post processing. It's done after the Dolby Digital.
     
  19. Bill Polley

    Bill Polley Second Unit

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    Yes Ernest. The post processing THX EX matrixes an extra 2 channels out of the 5.1 source (or a 6.1 source) Many other non-thx components do the same...with superior algoritms. Other post processing includes the reEQ, which other manufacturers also have, just not under the THX logo. Many here prefer Logic 7 or the Sirrus EX to the THX post processing (Logic 7 and the Sirrus EX are also post processing). I guess it can be considered a "feature". So I apologize.

    I still agree with Matt. THX is a certification process. They require that criteria are met, and the manufacturer pays to meet the criteria and to get the certification. However, where 20 yrs ago THX certification meant something, it no longer means that the product is superior. Many products offer the same features and performance (or even better performance) without the certification.
     
  20. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    That is only one thing, the others I mentioned are pre dates DVD and even Dolby Digital.[except the boundary controll that was part of Ultra 2.]
    If you don't care for these features that's cool[I don't either],but don't spread misinformation,it serves no one.
     

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