Axiom vs definitive Technology

Discussion in 'Speakers & Subwoofers' started by Dan Keefe, Jan 4, 2005.

  1. Dan Keefe

    Dan Keefe Second Unit

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    OK I have heard the DT's...HAs anyone heard the epic 60 or epic 80 system from axiom? I hate to buy speakers without hearing them, but I cannot find a bad review...
    HELP

    BP7002 is the series of speaker from DT...I want these things by the weekend any info is appreciated...


    thanks,

    dan
     
  2. Rory Buszka

    Rory Buszka Supporting Actor

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    You could be very happy with Def Tech bipolar speakers, though proper setup is critical so take your time. The components in DefTech speakers are high quality. Also, they probably have the powered subs in them so they would be in a different league than the Axioms which do not have owered subs in them. I do know this, though, when The Absolute Sound (a golden-ear audiophile mag) reviewed the Def Tech super-towers (with built-in SuperCube subs) it recieved a very goodreview, and remarked that they didn't expect to be so impressed by a speaker as relatively inexpensive as the Def Techs.
     
  3. DavidNighorn

    DavidNighorn Stunt Coordinator

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    I have the Axiom set that you are interested in. Well, almost. I have two M60's, the M150, and four M22's (surrounds). What I can tell you is that I am very pleased with the sound of this setup. As a frame of reference, my 'good' system at home is based on the B&W CDM-7's all-around. When I am away from home and am listening to the Axioms, I don't feel that I am losing very much.

    The def-tech's are good speakers. One thing to keep in mind is that they have internal powered subwoofers. Sounds great until you realized that you cannot place your subs separately from your R+L mains. How many folks find that the ideal sub location is also the best R+L location? The def-tech's also have a bit warmer sound. My preference is for more 'articulate' or 'detailed' speakers. I have no idea what your preference might be.

    Hopefully some other Axiom owners will chime in here to help you.

    David
     
  4. Heath_E

    Heath_E Stunt Coordinator

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    DavidNighorn is right about the powered towers. Having a Def Tech setup that includes powered towers myself, I can tell you that it is better to have a seperate sub. That's how I'm running now, and it is fantastic. Could have saved some serious cash had I known better at the time. My advice, if you go with Def Tech, is to get something like the BP 10B's and take the money saved and pick up an appropriate SVS, or other suitable sub, and enjoy HT bliss.
     
  5. Quenten

    Quenten Agent

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    Unlike the previous two threads, I think Def techs are the way to go. The built in sub has it's advantages. With a built in sub you don't have the problem with getting the phasing right, witch is impossible, there is no setting that is correct for more then one source. With a built in subwoofers everything is where it should be. The best way to go IMO is to get full range speakers all the way around and with Definitive Technology it can be done. Most speaker manufacters don't have speakers capable of full range. I just sold my SVS because I'm using Def Techs full range all the way around and my system never sounded better. With Def Tech full range speakers all the away around, I can customize the bass to fit my room, witch can't be done with a seperate sub. Question: for those of you who like a separate sub" we all know that placing a speaker in a corner will enhance the bass, if one of your mains are closer to the corner wall then the other one is it's going to seem to produce more bass. With a separate sub, How can this problem be solved?
     
  6. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    I think you'd have more of a problem with mains that have built in subs with one closer to the wall than the other, thatn with this scenario. At least with a single sub you can locate it for best sound, with mains that have built in subs you are stuck with one of the "subs" close to the wall.
     
  7. Quenten

    Quenten Agent

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    Well the subs can be indiviually calabrated, They each have a volume control for each sub.
     
  8. Quenten

    Quenten Agent

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    No that only one sourse, two subs. And who said you can't more your mains to other position?
     
  9. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    So does a single sub, I do not see the difference. Also, a single sub is not prone to cancellation/phase nulls and can be optimally placed in the room.
     
  10. Quenten

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    "optimally placed" does not mean the ideal spot, all your saying is the best place possible with one sub, NOT IDEAL. Ideal would be from each speaker full range, not bass thrown around a room to simulate bass coming from one position
     
  11. spiroH

    spiroH Agent

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    I have Axioms and are catered to the sound that I prefer. They are forward and very detailed speakers. They were exactly what I was looking for. I have never heard the Def Techs before.
     
  12. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    Low bass is non-directional, meaning you cannot locate it by ear, which is why a single sub works. The negative of nulls and peaks due to cancellations from multiple sources of low bass far outweigh any positives gained from "directional" bass, simply because low bass is non-directional.

    This has been discussed many times on the forum. Search for threads on "powered towers vs. dedicated sub".
     
  13. Quenten

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    No sub of the same quaility can never be as good as Two!
     
  14. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    I assure you any dedicated sub of quality (-3dB at 20Hz) is going to outperform the built in subs in a Def Tech tower. This also has been discussed on this forum and the general feeling was that the built-in subs of the Def Techs were somewhat lacking for the premium they charge over their unpowered towers. They are capable, but not down to 25-20Hz and below, which is where an SVS or Hsu will go.
     
  15. Quenten

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    [​IMG] HA HA How about 15-30Hz on my Def Tech BP7002
     
  16. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    That is the frequency range. Without a "-3db" rating to show where output drops off, they could be outputting 105dB at 50Hz and 30dB at 15Hz. Def Tech does not give a -3dB rating for it's subs, so they can give any frequency range that makes a sound, no matter how loud the sound is.

    Do a search, this has all been discussed before.
     
  17. DavidNighorn

    DavidNighorn Stunt Coordinator

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    I always wonder why these threads degenerate like this. Let's try to pull back to the center a bit. Saying something critical about a speaker is not the same as saying something critical about the purchaser. Audio is an intensely personal experience within a wide range of 'rules'.

    So, for the record, the Def Techs are very good speakers. Again, they have a warmer sound than I like, so I didn't buy them. There are probably an equal number of people that do not want to hear every guitar string squeak that is so audible with the Axiom's. That is the personal part of audio.

    Now on to some of the absolutes:
    The ideal spot for your main speakers is fixed. It varies by room, but once found, is not variable without destroying the stereo image.

    Next, the ideal spot for a subwoofer follows the same rules but does not end up with the same result. Bass behaves differently in your room than midrange/tweeter signals. Where your sub ends up is very likely to be different from where your mains are.

    The weakness of having co-located mains/subs can be partially tweaked out. Not entirely, though.

    Given these basic rules, it is up to the listener to decide what they prefer. The right answer is what sounds good to you. Furthermore, the right answer in your room might be the worst possible one in mine - from your perspective.

    David
     
  18. Quenten

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    Hey Jeff have you heard the BP7002's?
     
  19. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    No, but I have heard the unpowered ones and I have seen the measurements for the subs. They are great speakers, it's just that the powered towers do not have the ability to keep up with a quality dedicated sub at very low frequencies. I am not dissing the speakers, they are great at what they do. As David said "Saying something critical about a speaker is not the same as saying something critical about the purchaser". He also backed up what I said about the fixed postition of the mains may not be (and usually is not) the optimum position for the sub(s).
     
  20. Quenten

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    Thanks for the replys Jeff, even though we don't agree it's nice to be able talk with someone with some of the same interest. What kind of sub are you using, how long have you had your home theater and do you have any pictures of your theater room?
     

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