Axiom and Sibilance

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Steve WC, Jun 29, 2002.

  1. Steve WC

    Steve WC Stunt Coordinator

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    I have had my M40's now for about 3 months. They replaced a 15 year old pair of JVC 3-way speakers that were part of a rack system(remember those).

    I have put many hrs. on these speakers with all types of music. I really like the clear and crisp sound, but I am finding it hard to get used to the sibilance (hard s's and f's) associated with these speakers. The sibilance is also associated with my VP100 center.

    On some recordings it is hardly noticeable, while on others it is unbelievable prevalent. It is also there with cable TV.

    I have read many posts reguarding sibilance with metal drivers, poor recordings and room characteristics.

    Do any of you feel sibilance to be pronounced in your speakers?

    Is there anything to be done?

    Thanks,

    Steve


    My other gear: Yamaha 5440 SVS 2531pci Panasonic RV31K
    Speakers are bare wired with 12 gauge wire.
     
  2. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    I fear it may be the Yamaha that is at least partly responsible. Most mid to lower Yamahas are bright sounding to me, as are the Axioms, so combining the two may not yeild the best overall results. I heard no sibilance when using the M3Tis with my Marantz SR6200, but they were noticably brighter than my Mini Monitors.

    Your "other" gear did not list your sources or types of connections, which may be a significant factor also. It is not out of the question that your source could be the cause also. Do you have the same effect with all sources?

    What is the relationship of the speakers to the nearest walls? Try slight adjustments in speaker position (toe) to see if anything changes.
     
  3. Allan F

    Allan F Agent

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    Steve,
    I have only heard the small axiom bookshelves (M1 I think). I just find it interesting that you focused in on the sibilant parts of speech. The last time I was in the market for new speakers, I rejected a pair of B&W's because the sibilant sounds on my Holly Cole cd wer just too much. I ended up with a pair of PSB's. I can't stand speakers with faults that are obvious while listening to well recorded vocals. I don't know if this helps but I just thought I would comment.

    Allan
     
  4. Luis Cruz

    Luis Cruz Stunt Coordinator

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    I also agree with Yamaha being bright sounding. I had a Yammy a couple of years ago and ended up switching it for a Denon. Denon had a much more full, warm, and open sound to my ears.
     
  5. Leo_P

    Leo_P Second Unit

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    Steve,
    After reading your post I've been listening more carefully to my Axiom M40's and they don't exhibit any sibilance. I also have a VP100 and it too sounds good to me.
    FYI, I have them hooked up to a h/k AVR520. I don't know if the h/k's are supposed to be "bright" or "warm" or "golden-brown deep-fried" or whatever... I think it might be a combination of your Yamaha receiver and the source.
    You wrote: "On some recordings it is hardly noticeable, while on others it is unbelievable prevalent. It is also there with cable TV." I just think if it was JUST the speakers, it'd be noticeable ALL the time.
    Just my $.02. Good luck.
     
  6. Fong

    Fong Stunt Coordinator

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    i agree with leo that it's a combination of your receiver and sources. heh cable tv is not the cleanest source, so you probably will run into static and sibilance as well. i am using the same receiver to power a vp150 and m22s and i dont notice any sibilance except when i watch tv or listen to radio.

     
  7. Eric_Singer

    Eric_Singer Agent

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    The receiver is definitely a significant factor. I was experiencing this problem on certain recordings with my M22's and an H/K AVR70 receiver. I recently replaced it with a H/K PT2500/PA5800 pre/amp combo, and all those hard s's are gone.

    Eric
     
  8. Gary PT

    Gary PT Agent

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    Steve,
    I have almost exactly the same set up as you, but with the M22's.(the same tweeter). And,had the same problem. I have to agree a lot of it may be the yamaha. But I found a cure. I changed my speaker cables, believe it or not, with the home-made CAT 5 cable recipe you'll find floating around on this forum and others. Worked like a charm. I couldn't believe it. It also improved imaging, and created a high end with a simply amazing transparency and openness. Now my M22's sound like the Good Sound reviewer said they did in the midrange and high end. It takes a bit of work, but it's cheap. And a more practical solution then changing the amp. Give it a try. I was one of those folks who thought that there was no audible difference with any good quality speaker cable in short runs. I was wrong.
     
  9. Ron Reda

    Ron Reda Cinematographer

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    I've never experienced anything like what you're talking about with my Axioms, except for maybe poorly recorded CDs. However, I'm using a Denon 3802 for processing. I'm not so sure I'd mate Axioms with a Yammy...that might be a bit much...
     
  10. Steve WC

    Steve WC Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for all the info. I can't spring for a new receiver right now, so I'll try some of the other suggestions.
     
  11. Ron Boster

    Ron Boster Screenwriter

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    Steve:

    I know exactly what you are talking about...."s" "P" etc. Episode One is a soundtrack that comes to mind (at times). I have mated the VP 150 with Marantz MA 700 monoblock amp....I've always been under the assumption that the MA700's a very neutral...but it could be a bad mate. What I did to help (but not a complete fix) is place the VP150 on a solid center channel stand from sound anchors (filled with metal "shavings"). ALso, I put four dabs of blu stuff/putty (forgot the name) between the stand and the speaker. The thought was to make sure vibrations and placement may be part of the problem....This helped to tame it to a certain degree...but overall, I'm not overly impressed with Axiom's 150 vs their other speakers.

    If anyone has a suggestion for a warm monoblock to pair with the 150, let me know?

    Thanks
    Ron
     
  12. Ron Boster

    Ron Boster Screenwriter

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    Sorry Steve,
    I seem to be a thread killer. I'm bumping now that the holiday is over to see if there are other opinions out there?
     
  13. Jeff Kohn

    Jeff Kohn Supporting Actor

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    I tend to think that for the most part the sibilance is coming from the source, it's just that the VP150 is a very revealing/neutral speaker and does nothing to "hide" this problem the way some other speakers with a slightly more laid back sound might. The reason I say this is because with some material I don't notice any sibilance; for the most part DVD's are OK, though some will occasionally have sibilance. Satellite TV, on the other hand, is much worse, to the point where I almost always use the "Cinema EQ" option on my pre/pro when watching sat TV.

    I would also tend to agree with Ron that the VP150 is not quite as good as the rest of the Axiom lineup. It's a good center channel, don't get me wrong. But it's not in the same league as my M60ti's, and for the price I expected more from Axiom (the VP150 isn't exactly cheap in relation to the rest of their lineup).
     
  14. Ron Boster

    Ron Boster Screenwriter

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    Jeff:

    I ditto all your points.....

    I hope that Axiom recognizes the short commings of the VP150 and strive to improve in the center channel area.
     

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