AVM-20 Review.....finally! (1 Viewer)

[John Morris]

But in my mind, (or until someone educates me), Circle Surround should be defeatable for genuine (THX) Surround EX/DTS-ES discs, as it could definately "smear" the soundstage back there.

Kevin: I think that's why Outlaw decided to delay the release to include REAL DD-EX decoding. Of course it'll be nice to have bonefide Dolby Digital EX and Cirrus Surround. Still, I've been using a THX-EX unit for the last month and very few movies sounded bad when I used that decoding even on 5.1 movies.

 

[John Kotches]

The AVM-20 (like the B&K Reference 30) uses Motorola DSPs for which Motorola supplies the DPL-2 and DTS-ES code.

It is not available for the current DSP in this unit, and the DSP will have to be replaced with the latest generation when it becomes available in the near future.

The costs to upgrade this to DPL-2 and DTS-ES will be the retail difference in price, in other words, if you buy an AVM-20 now, and upgrade as soon as DPL-2 and DTS-ES are available it will cost you no more than it would to wait on their inclusion.

The costs will go toward a new DSP board and licenses for DPL-2 and DTS-ES.

IMO, this is a reasonable practice on Anthems part, as you pay no financial penalty for buying today and adding the upgrade.

Regards.

 

[John Morris]

IMO, this is a reasonable practice on Anthems part, as you pay no financial penalty for buying today and adding the upgrade.

John K: So you are agreeing that early adopters should not be rewarded with a free upgrade when they become available? Does your statement also stand for those units where a simple software upgrade is necessary? Should there have been a $50 charge for the recent software upgrade to all of us Panasonic RP91 DVD owners?

If not, then wouldn't it make sense for folks who want an upgradable unit to wait for a unit with a chipset which we know supports DPL2 and those future upgrades that they buyer may want? IMO, anyone who buys a Motorola based unit is buying it for what it is now, and not for those future upgradable hopes... BTW, that is not bad with the BK ref 30 and the AVR20 now in the Motorola mix.

 

[Lewis Besze]

THX Surround EX is, for lack of a better phrase, the "real deal" when it comes to EX playback and has a few perks over the innumerable clones that are out there

So what exactly THX EX has that the clones[aka the ones who don't wanna pay the fees]don't?

 

[Derrick G]

Great review! Now all we need is a shootout between the AVM20+PVA-7 and the BK Ref 30+BK Ref 7260. What do you guys think? Who would come out on top?

Derrick G

 

[Kevin C Brown]

John- You got it!
(THX) Surround EX decoding for DD EX/DTS-ES discs, and Circle Surround for "std" DD/DTS discs!
I keep thinking that I'm paranoid that no else seems to be bothered by this "problem"...
And, I was going to actually buy the B&K Ref 30 until I found out that it had no specific deprocessing algorythm for "std" DD/DTS discs within a 6.1/7.1 speaker set up.

 

[Lanny M]

Does your statement also stand for those units where a simple software upgrade is necessary? Should there have been a $50 charge for the recent software upgrade to all of us Panasonic RP91 DVD owners?

Anthem is already providing free software downloads on their website...original buyers were at version .90; 1.0 is on the website, and 1.1 should be out shortly....

Lanny

 

[Brian Florian]

Lewis,

I did not go into great detail in the review other than to say it uses the genuine Dolby matrix but I'll explain a little for you why the real matrix is desirable. THX EX (and now Dolby Digital EX, available to non-THX units) uses the Dolby Pro Logic steering matrix at the back running specifically in Dolby Stereo 3 mode. This is the same matrix used when the artists are assembling the soundtrack and thus reflects what they put into it.

If an EX-clone uses a "loose" matrix (where the steering is not as hard) sounds may not be distributed as they should be. That's not soooo bad. But there are EX clones (I can think of one but wont name names) which does not run in Stereo 3 mode and thus "throws away" the out-of-phase material in the surrounds. This is a big deal. If a sound artist wants a sound to be predominantly in the surround left and right, and not in the center-surround, they can input the sound out-of phase. If the clone is not running in some form of Stereo 3 (and has half decent steering) the sound in question will be mute!

 

[Michael D]

My question is, what does it sound like when it plays a normal 5.1 DD/DTS in the 7.1 mode?? Or can it do this, does it just duplicate the sides to the rears?? Can someone explain this, Brian????

 

[Lewis Besze]

Brian,

Thanks for the response, so what is the Denon 3801 has ? A correct dolby stereo 3 or some kinda "loose" steering?

 

[John Kotches]

John M:

I apologize for the slow reply.

You're getting a new DSP, and you're getting new algorithms. Should you pay for those? I believe so.

Policies for software upgrades only (I consider firmware to be software) are at the discretion of the manufacturer. Onkyo was charging about US$50 for the DPL-2 upgrades for all of their products if memory serves me correctly, to cover licensing fees, but they weren't exchanging boards to do so.

For bug fixes, that's another story altogether, but we aren't talking about bug fixes, are we? Anthem/SF is stating up front Dolby Pro Logic, so it's lack of including DPL-2 isn't a bug, and they've been upfront about its lack of inclusion.

As I said, you pay no financial penalty, so I don't think that's a problem. Buy now, or buy later it will be the same out of pocket expense.

You seem to want to get "something for nothing", as a reward for buying now and as such I suggest you haggle with the dealer.

We're going to disagree on this, because I don't feel that SF/Anthem should have to provide you with a hardware, software and licensing upgrade for free.

Regards,

 

[Richard Burzynski]

FWIW, I'd like to add my own mini partial review.
Last week I made a "quick" stop at my favorite local A/V installer so that I could see the latest toys available. He always seems to get a new highend speaker brand every time I visit, and I wanted to see "what was playing."
His main room had the following equipment:
Prepro: AVM20
Speakers: Revel Performas
Amp/s: ???
DVD player: ???
FPTV: New Yamaha DLP
All above gear was a first for me, he's always shuffling that main room's gear , and I should add that the guys there usually demo at what must be near Dolby reference playback - most of them must be partially deaf - (fellow HTF member Ricky T. can confirm).
Three words:
Effortless, Detailed, and Smooth.
It's hard to describe. I heard every little detail (remember it was LOUD), but it was always smooth - meaning at no time did the sound get bright or uncomfortable. I'm still scratching my head on that one. Tons of detail but still very easy to listen to.
The demo scene was the Pearl Harbor attack. I don't know which soundtrack it was. The best part: I intended to make a 5-10 minute stop, when I finally checked my watch, I had watched 35 minutes straight.
Very Nice sounding system.
Rich B.

 

[John Cain]

Since about 99% of the DVDs out there are NOT 6.1 encoded, my big question is:

"How do these new pre/pros handle 5.1 material and make it sound good when using all 7.1 speakers???"

I'm wondering how the AVM-20 handles converting 5.1 signals to quasi 6.1 sound.

-- John

 

[Bhagi Katbamna]

If it is THX-EX then it would apply the same matrix technique--that is Dolby Stereo 3 to extract the rear center information. One of the best EX soundtrack was encoded only with DD 5.1(Godzilla).

 

[Darrel McBane]

Great review Brian.
Found it very informative with interesting with the exception of the "Popcorn" remarks.
I'm looking at replacing my Acurus Act-3 and have just about given up on Mondials efforts as far as an upgrade is concerned. At present I'm considering the Intergra RDC-7 and the B&K Reference 30 as my performance versas cost options. The Anthem AVM-20 certainly sounds like a contender for the RDC-7. I have a local dealer that has talked about the AVM-20 but doesn't carry it at this time. So looking and listening to one will have to wait. Are the AVM-20 sold mail order or online?
Any thoughts as to the pros and cons of the RDC-7 and AVM-20 head to head? Cost differences of the two units not considered.
Revel F-30 powered by the Rotel 1090 amp are my main speakers. And a Rotel 1095 to power my center, rear and twin 20-39 SVS subs. So best two channel sound is one of my main consideration.

 

[John Morris]

We're going to disagree on this, because I don't feel that SF/Anthem should have to provide you with a hardware, software and licensing upgrade for free.

John K: I understand what you are saying, however, I believe that buyers of this unit are ALREADY paying for the upgrade when they buy this unit today. Hey, come on now, this unit already costs more than $3200 and Anthem made the decision to release this brand new unit using the old Mototorola chipset when they knew beforehand that it would not support DPL2. If effect, they are selling folks a unit which is already last years model. And they are admitting as much by coming out and telling you that they will be upgrading your brand new unit in a few months, but when that happens, you have to pay us again to bring it up to this years model. It wouldn't suprise me if Motorola may have even made a deal with Anthem, telling them that if they bought their old DSP now, that they would give them an equivalent number of new ones when they are available. Of course, this is America and it is Anthems duty to try and make as much money as possible off of their customers. IMO, the right thing for Anthem to do is to either wait to release the unit till they can do the upgrade and not have to charge the customer for their chipset mistake or simply show the customer how much they appreciate their support and confidence in Anthem and give them the upgrade for the cost of shipping plus per unit licensing fee. Then again, folks that buy the current AVM-20 could probably care less about DPL2 anyway making this all a moot discussion.

 

[Dennis Oblow]

I just bought an AVM 20 and the fact that it doesn't have DPLII was a factor in negotiating the price of the unit. I don't think it would be too hard to get the dealer to discount the cost of the future upgade.

 

[John Cain]

"...Of course, this is America and it is Anthems duty to try and make as much money as possible off of their customers. ..."
I thought they were Canadians !?!
-- John

 

[John Morris]

I thought they were Canadians !?!

Holy Cow! I think you're right! LOL! Make that "this is North America..."

 

[Brian Florian]

John (Morris),

I really think you are approaching this from the wrong angle.

You say "I believe that buyers of this unit are ALREADY paying for the upgrade when they buy this unit today." Where do you get that? Fact is, one could say that people who buy the unit "today" are getting it at a "discount" in that they are NOT paying for new hardware and licenses which are planned for the future.

Saying that "this unit already costs more than $3200 and Anthem made the decision to release this brand new unit using the old Motorola chipset" is really a cheap shot. A) There are more than a couple units twice the price (or more) of the AVM-20 with which it competently competes and B) it is NOT and "old" chipset. It is the CURRENT chipset. And your posts are singling out the AVM-20 when ALL Motorola based units, including the popular B&K Ref30 are IN THE SAME BOAT. Are you saying that B&K should have pulled the Ref30 off the market when DLP2 came out, and withheld it until next year when it could include DLP2? Of course you're not. There are a whole bunch of happy B&K owners who would have a problem with that. Owners who have been enjoying their purchase and look forward to purchasing an upgrade when available.