AVIA Test Pattern Question.

Discussion in 'Displays' started by RickLe, Jan 5, 2004.

  1. RickLe

    RickLe Stunt Coordinator

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    Just curious...I'm running the AVIA test patterns for geometry on my set. I chose 100 IRE, does AVIA run tests for any specific time length, then give you an idea how out of wack your set really is?
     
  2. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    I don't understand your question?
     
  3. RickLe

    RickLe Stunt Coordinator

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    Well I just threw in the Avia disc wanting to check just how bad my geometry is. I went into Avanced and started running the test patterns. It's been two hours and the tests are still running. Is this the norm or should I stop the disc? I was also curious to know if the Avia disc gave results on what needed to be changed and just how bad it is?
     
  4. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Are you serious? hahahhahha

    I think you're not joking....which i find quite humorous. Sorry for laughing at you...[​IMG]

    Avia is just an instructional disc with test tones for audio, and test patterns for video, along with explanations for the use of the basic video test patterns.

    YOU have to adjust the set, all it does is contain the patterns. The test patterns are accessed individually, and only last a short duration, which prevent users from burning them into their screens. I do not know how you were able to play one test pattern for such a long time, or loop them, I find this QUITE curious. And also frikkin funny. [​IMG] Sorry again. [​IMG]

    Avia doesn't "tell" you ANYTHING. It contains the test patterns, and you use these to adjust, measure, or otherwise acertain the performance of your set, and try to fix things, if they are user-adjustable. (or adjustable via more advanced methods).

    Again, I apologize, i don't mean to insult, but I was scratching my head trying to figure out what your first question meant. Your second post expectations were quite funny (to me anyway [​IMG] )

    Have you gone through the basic patterns yet? It seems like you've not used Avia, or other test patterns before, I suggest you go through the basic video patterns, and watch the explanations of how to calibrate your set with those patterns.
     
  5. RickLe

    RickLe Stunt Coordinator

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    I sure did, I went through everything more throroughly this time, and just like I surmised even before I read your post, it only gives the patterns as a visual measure only, no actual 'testing' and review. I was hoping it would. FWIW it's great for audio, and basic video setting but I was actually hoping for it to run testing sequences then give me a report. I've been having problems with my local dealer and Sony. I've been trying to prove my set has convergence and geometry issues that I see but they say can't be fixed. The test patterns definitely in the basic form show convergence and geometry issues. Now to get them to view it.
     
  6. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Yes, but a disc is a dumb device. It would need some sort of measuring hardware to see what is going on with your TV. It has no way of knowing anything about what your TV looks like. Obviously this would cost big $$$.

    What kind of TV do you have, model number may also be helpful. Geometry is usually something that can be fixed by a pro, or by crafty enthusiasts, via the service menu.
     
  7. RickLe

    RickLe Stunt Coordinator

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    It's a 32HS510 Sony. I finally, today, was able to get someone to come look at it. Hopefully they can fix the geometry prob. Everytime I say geometry or convergence I get, "What's that?", or "It can't be fixed." Today a tech told me,"there's no convergence on that set." Why then I aksed, does it give corrective measure in the service manual for it then?
     
  8. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    I'm not familiar with this set, other than google just told me it's a 32in direct view sony. Obviously there's no convergence then, though there should be adjustments that may help with geometry problems. What exactly is the nature of the problem you are seeing? Describe in detail. I'm sure others will be more familiar with this set, as I am not at all familiar with the specifics of most TVs. However, as a direct view, it won't have any convergence of course.

    hopefully someone else can chime in to help.
     
  9. MarkStash

    MarkStash Stunt Coordinator

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    ChrisWiggles:

    While you're helping us Newb's, I have a question for ya. I get my calibration disk tomorrow. I have my sound meter at the ready and I'm anxious to "tune-up" my HT.

    While researching, I learned that I can enter the service menu and another menu on my rear-screen projection Toshiba. Will I be doing this? Or, are all adjustments just being done to convergence, color, tint, contrast, etc. I'm not too sure about taking the tv apart and messing with lenses but I was curious.......

    I've read other posts from folks who say their tv's are out by 2", etc. etc. Was curious how deep the calibration discs actually go.
     
  10. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Mark:

    glad to help where i can. Though I am as newb as many others in certain arenas. If I could own one model of every TV, receiver, speakers, etc it'd be great but obviously I don't have the $. Nor the patience to rob that many different stores. [​IMG]

    Anyway, Avia's basic calibration covers white level(usually labeled "contrast", sometimes "picture"), black level (VERY confusingly labeled "brightness"), sharpness, color saturation (usually "color"), and color balance (tint/hue).

    These are usually always accessible through basic menus(or knobs), without having to access the service menu.

    Again, I'm a new when it comes to most consumer TVs, I do not know where the convergence adjustments are located on RPTVs. This is something you'll want to check, and adjust if necessary. Other more in-depth adjustments, and settings that may be accessed via the service manual may be adjusted with the help of the advanced setup patterns on Avia, however, the basic tutorial and patterns shouldn't require you to get into any service menus. It is a basic NTSC calibration, and the adjustments should be readily accessible.

    More advanced tweaks may(should) provide better images, however, they are much more involved, and you CAN screw things up permanently messing around in the service menu. Also, physical stuff like taking the set apart, obviously may void your warranty, and you should not go willy-nilly there either. You may also expose yourself to very high voltages as well. Again, my knowledge and experience is related to FP CRT projectors, which are essentially the same as RPTVs, so are similar, but are not consumer oriented, so pretty much all the advanced adjustments you HAVE to do on your own (or hire a pro). For instance, I have no idea how exposed things are within the set, or if the electronics are well-protected, allowing you to access the lenses very safely.

    I encourage you to learn as much as you can about in-depth adjustments, but I would be patient before rushing in headlong. IMO, the basic calibration will provide by FAR the best improvement in PQ. The rest take it a little further, but basic calibration takes it from crap to greatness. Beyond greatness is nice, but, just icing. Not that beyond the basics is insignificant, nor reserved for techy nerds, or videophiles, but for those with the patience to to things carefully and safely.

    Hope my ramblings make sense. [​IMG]
     
  11. RickLe

    RickLe Stunt Coordinator

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    Chris, why do you say there's no convergence? According to the service manual there is and it can be corrected
     
  12. RickLe

    RickLe Stunt Coordinator

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    Chris, why do you say there's no convergence? According to the service manual there is and it can be corrected
     
  13. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    It's a direct view CRT.....


    Why would there be convergence....

    Convergence is for CRT projection (FP, and RPTVs) when the three separate tubes must be aligned perfectly to form white. Direct view CRTs have one tube...thus there is no converging that can be done. I don't know what service manual you have, but are you sure it's for the same TV?

    Are you sure this is the TV you are talking about? :

    http://hardwarecentral.dealtime.com/xPF-Sony_KV_32HS510
     
  14. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Which also explains why the techs are baffled by your claims that it is a convergence problem, or can be fixed with convergence adjustments.

    It's like asking someone to fix the 4-wheel drive transfer case on your motorcycle.
     
  15. RickLe

    RickLe Stunt Coordinator

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    Yeah, positive, I ordered the service manual directly from Sony and it shows bigger than life a tube from the Sony KV-32HS510 and goes on to explain how to correct covergence in the set. I've also read many posts on avsforum.com that there is convergence on direct view sets. Here's something also from the gallery of terms from this site:
    "convergence-the correct aiming of the three electron beams in a direct viewed picture tube...." I just got off the phone with an ISF tech who confirms there is convergence in direct view sets.
     
  16. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Ah, *beam* convergence. This is not usually an issue at all with direct view sets, and I don't think is related to any geometry problems. Use the geometry adjustments for this.
     
  17. MarkStash

    MarkStash Stunt Coordinator

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    Chris:

    Thanks, you've confirmed just about what I thought. I adjust the convergence on my RPTV periodically. It is done via the setup menu and you use 9 screen "locations" and "converge" red and blue separately onto the white cross-hatch. It sharpens things up nicely. I guess I'll just wait on the disc and give things a try. I suspect that I'll still be thinking about the actual lenses and the "pro" adjustments when I'm done. I've read a bunch about how to calibrate/adjust on Keohi (website) and they seem very good (ie. show you how to get into service menus, etc.)

    RickLe, you may want to check this out....

    http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/brand...sony_tips.html

    Mark
     
  18. RickLe

    RickLe Stunt Coordinator

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    Cool thanks Mark
     

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