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Avengers: Endgame SPOILERS ALLOWED THREAD

Discussion in 'Movies' started by Jake Lipson, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    I don’t really have a problem with both forms of time travel existing in the same franchise. Star Trek, for one, has shown how some forms of time travel can cause time to be in a loop/one timeline, while other forms can create alternate realities. But I’d agree with the overall point that what’s explicitly stated in Endgame suggests only one method of traveling.
     
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  2. RobertR

    RobertR Executive Producer

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    I completely agree with you. I loathed Ragnorak, and I hate how Thor has been made into so much of a clownish, wimpy, pathetic character.

    Other than that, I thought they did as good a job with the "fix the past" aspect as they could have. They couldn't undo it, but they did fix it. Some appropriately bittersweet moments.
     
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  3. Sean Bryan

    Sean Bryan Sean Bryan

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    Yeah, the conversation Steve has with Peggy in The Winter Soldier never gives one indication that Peggy was married to Steve. Now, one could say that she is hiding her life with Steve from Steve so as not to have any impact on what he does so that he still be able to eventually go back and complete the loop, etc, etc... BUT her dementia kicking in and forgetting that Steve was unfrozen and her reaction to him as if it was the first time she saw him in a lifetime seems to speak volumes about this.

    “Steve! You’re alive! You came back! (crying) It’s been so, so long.”

    That feels to me like her reaction to learning Steve was unfrozen after a lifetime of thinking he was dead. Though I guess you could interpret it as her flashing back to her memories in the 40’s when he “came back”. But then again, would that have been “so, so long” for her if she thought it was still the 1940’s? To me, it feels like it fits not having seen him for a lifetime much more.

    The development of these stories have been a collaborative effort between these two writing and directing teams, but ultimately the Russos are the one telling us their story. Markus and McFeely obviously had a huge hand in developing the story and crafting the script, but the Russos get the final word on what is what when it comes to interpreting things that aren’t explicitly spelled out in the script.
     
  4. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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  5. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    This has been going around Facebook. I picked it up from Screen Rant's page but I'm not sure if they are its original creators or not.

    Although intended as a joke, it also raises questions about how Steve lived day-to-day in the past with the knowledge he has of the future.


    Steve & Peggy JFK meme.
     
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  6. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    Well, this is a surprise.

    The Russos said that Steve could feature in Loki's Disney+ series, attempting to get the Tesseract back.

    https://ew.com/tv/2019/05/15/russo-brothers-loki-series-captain-america/

    While this is certainly an exciting idea, I would be kind of surprised if Chris Evans would want to come back for that so quickly after Endgame. It wouldn't interfere with the ending of Endgame because if he did go after that version of Loki, he would have done it before returning to be with Peggy. But would Evans really want to commit to filming (probably) multiple episodes of the Loki show right after Endgame gave him such a great way to bow out?

    He is going to lend his voice to an episode of What If? on Disney+ in which Peggy got the Captain America serum instead of him, but that's animation so that's just voice work and a lot less intensive than a live-action series.

    I sort of assumed that Cap would just let that one go, since there's no way for him to know where Loki went with the Tesseract. He would have returned the Tesseract that Tony borrowed to SHIELD in 1970 and that's as much as I expected. There's no way he would be able to fix all the timelines, because the 2014 versions of Gamora, Nebula and Thanos who came to 2023 will not experience the Guardians movies, so that's at least one branched reality he can't really do anything about. He can put back the Power Stone before Quill takes it, but things won't play out exactly as they did in the main MCU timeline due to the absence of those three characters.
     
  7. Sam Favate

    Sam Favate Lead Actor

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    I could see Evans doing some small appearances in the Loki show, although the focus would still be on Tom Hiddleston. Maybe Evans will appear just enough to let us know he's in pursuit, with his only major appearance at the end.

    I've also read that Evans is allegedly going to direct several episodes of the Disney+ shows. As Evans is someone who wants to get more directing jobs, Marvel would be wise to give him the experience and also keep him in their camp.

    As for the JFK meme above, maybe, as the Russos said, Steve created a new timeline when he went back to live with Peggy (which is why he had to jump back to give Sam his shield), one in which he helped avoid the mistakes of the past. He could have done so anonymously, feeding information to Peggy, who, as director of SHIELD, could have altered world events. Imagine: No assassinations of JFK, RFK, MLK, no Vietnam war, no Watergate or Nixon, no Iranian hostage crisis, and so on, up to the present. Indeed, in that reality, Steve could have had Earth prepared for the arrival of Thanos, who would never have gotten the Infinity Stones. Yet another reason Steve's happy ending is a happy ending for all of us.

    You could imagine that he just wanted to go live a quiet, normal life, but his sense of service would likely compel him to at least make sure catastrophe was averted.
     
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  8. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    Another interview with Markus and McFeely.

     
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  9. Message #549 of 753 May 16, 2019
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
    Sean Bryan

    Sean Bryan Sean Bryan

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    Depends on who’s interpretation of what Steve going back to live in the past you go by, the directors or the writers.

    If you go by the directors (which keeps with the “rules” set up by the movie) and Steve believes the rules they were operating under when they did the time heist, then Steve would be under the belief that going back would create an alternate timeline. He should believe that nothing he does in the past would change what happened in the original history, so there would be no reason for him to try to preserve that history. He would have every reason and justification to do whatever he could to make the world better and do things like rescue Bucky, deal with Zola and Hydra, and make the world a better place.

    If he believes that going back and marrying Peggy was always fated and that he was just continuing a time loop (which had not been set up as a type of time thing in this movie) and was not creating and living in an alternate reality, then he would have to live quietly in secret and not interfere with anything so that history would play out the way it was meant. It’s just that the whole point of the movie was that time travel doesn’t work that way. If you go to the past and change something it won’t change your past so you are now in an alternate timeline.

    So unless more is eventually revealed about this, and the time travel mechanics of the MCU are expanded upon to allow more complex variations that can include this sort of predestination time loop, I say Cap lived a wonderful, kickass life with Peggy filled with adventures together, and really put his mark on that new reality.
     
  10. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    Sean - I bet the answer for which version of time travel it is will be determined by whether or not Feige can make a deal with Evans to appear as Captain America in a headline project again. Until and unless that becomes an impossibility, the fuzzy answer to that question gives Feige the maximum amount of maneuverability.
     
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  11. Message #551 of 753 May 16, 2019
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
    Sean Bryan

    Sean Bryan Sean Bryan

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    I do find it really curious that there is this apparent discrepancy between what the Russos and Markus/McFeely say about this.

    Any time they have discussed their process of breaking the stories of these movies both the Russos and M&M emphasized how much time they spend sitting around and really hashing it all out. Based on that it just seems really odd that they’d not be on the same page when it comes to this question, since it has to be obvious that the question would come up from viewers. I’m not sure I can believe that they never had a discussion, as a creative group, about the implications of Steve’s life in the past.

    So I’m leaning towards them purposely keeping the question open (by both teams giving opposite interpretations) because they know Marvel has plans to further explore this in the future. Maybe wishful thinking on my part, but it actually seems more likely than them not actually having a discussion about this when writing and filming the movie.
     
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  12. Sean Bryan

    Sean Bryan Sean Bryan

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    Yep, on the same page with you on that per my concurrent post with yours.
     
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  13. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    Ultimately, it’s not really up to the Russos or Markus/McFeely. It’s Feige’s show and always has been.
     
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  14. Sean Bryan

    Sean Bryan Sean Bryan

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    Along those lines, Kevin Feige just did a “Reddit AMA” Q&A and... when asked if he can provide a definitive answer about this, all Feige would give was a simple "Yes."
     
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  15. Sean Bryan

    Sean Bryan Sean Bryan

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    He’s a cookin a somthin up!
     
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  16. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    I’d love to see them do little Cap and Peggy miniseries every now and then for as long as Evans and Atwell are with us. I’d love to check in on those characters periodically with new adventures. My biggest disappointment in the entire MCU is that we only got one period piece Cap story and this opens the door to return to that territory in an organic way.
     
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  17. Sean Bryan

    Sean Bryan Sean Bryan

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    That would be really cool, but I’m greedy. VERY greedy. My ridiculous (never gonna happen but fun to think about) fantasy is that they do another entire trilogy with Cap and Peggy that follows their adventures together in this new reality (which would be period pieces in the 40’s-60’s) and then years down the road they do a large MCU event movie that deals with Kang coming back because of the “damage” done to his timeline/reality that he feels is due to Cap’s actions. And the end of that would show how and why he eventually returned back to the original MCU reality at the end of Endgame.

    Greedy.
     
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  18. Sean Bryan

    Sean Bryan Sean Bryan

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    No, I just got something in my eye.

     
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  19. David Deeb

    David Deeb Supporting Actor

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    Now that a few weeks have gone by, I'm not sure I really like this movie. I understand they want to do something different, but these aren't the Avengers I want to watch. Thor is fat and not the god of Thunder; Hulk is barely Hulk for 2 movies; and the others get killed off or grow old.

    Not a bad film, but glad it's over. In fact, I'm done with all the Marvel and Star Wars movies now. Time to move on from people "blasting" their powers at other people.
     
  20. Sean Bryan

    Sean Bryan Sean Bryan

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    Great pic posted by the Russos.

    EF0DD140-A26A-45E6-9F57-EEC1D9948783.
     

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