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Avengers: Endgame home UHD disc release discussion

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Martin Dew, Jun 28, 2019.

  1. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Director

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    I would definitely try exchanging it; I had no issues with my copy.
     
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  2. Ashly Yeo

    Ashly Yeo Stunt Coordinator

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    I had a disc with same problem (see post earlier on) and I took it back to Best Buy where I bought it and they exchanged it without even checking it. They claimed there are quite a few discs with the same problem.
     
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  3. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    This is an interview Marvel recently uploaded to YouTube with Dan DeLeeuw, the visual effects supervisor of the film. He talks about a lot, including the Captain America versus himself scene.

    It is more interesting and substantial than any of the featurettes that made it onto the Blu-ray bonus disc. Why didn't they put more of this on the actual home release?

     
  4. Message #104 of 122 Aug 18, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
    Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    Fair enough. We disagree on pretty much every point you brought up except for the nice touch you mentioned. But it makes sense why you feel the way you do. Thanks.

    Catastrophic how? I completely understand and agree that it was a bizarre and ill-thought-out move, especially for a movie where so much of the advance publicity was about avoiding spoilers. I also think it's strange that the Russos would approve such an intro for this reason. However, I don't see anything catastrophic. If a few people get the movie ruined for them by watching the intro first, they'd be pissed, but I don't think Disney considers that to be a huge problem. You also have to select to play the intro first instead of just playing the movie. It would seem to me the likelihood of a person waiting until disc to check out the movie and also choosing that they want to hear from the directors first is pretty minuscule.

    Even though I saw the movie four times in theaters and know exactly what is coming, when I sit down to watch the movie, I don't want to see scenes from the end of it before I get to the end. So I will never watch the intro again.

    Agreed. I listened to the commentary tonight and it was great. If there was only going to be one substantial making-of supplement on the discs, I'm glad it was this one.

    Honestly, the most shocking thing to me that they said in the entire commentary is that Alan Silvestri has never won an Oscar. Given the significance and breadth of his career, that is just stunning to me. I guess I just assumed he already had one because he should already have one. I do hope he gets nominated for this. I have a feeling the music branch might not be able to resist giving it to John Williams as a sort of capstone award for finishing off his work with the Star Wars saga, and I'm sure that Williams is going to give us a great grand finale there. But Silvestri's work here is extremely deserving for sure.

    I agree with this, too, but I also hope we don't see another Avengers movie for a long time. I would be absolutely shocked if Marvel permanently retires that name, and I'm not expecting them to do so, but they need to respect that they called this "Endgame." I think that means going back to the patience and restraint that they showed in the Phase 1 films. They took the time to introduce each member of the team individually in other movies so that we already knew them and built up to a point where it was a major event to see them come together for the first time. Because Endgame takes so many major characters off the board, Marvel is going to need to spend the time again to rebuild a new team. I think this can work, but I also think that if they rush back to The Avengers name before they've done the legwork to make us care about the new team, then it would cheapen the significance of The Avengers name and of Marvel's brand. They did it right once. Hopefully they will do it right again.

    This works way better. In addition to being tonally wrong for Infinity War, if Smart Hulk had appeared in that film, then Banner/Hulk would not really have made any significant change in the five-year gap. He would have been essentially the same when we pick up with him in 2023 as when we left him in 2018. Part of the fun of the reintroduction to each character in 2023 is seeing how they are different, and Smart Hulk's reappearance wouldn't have been as effective as him making his first appearance in the 2023 section of the movie.

    I suspect it was deliberate not to address that. First of all, we've seen different answers from the Russos and Markus and McFeely in interviews they've done separately, and it would have been awkward for them to work that difference of opinion out while recording a commentary that everyone will hear. But also, and perhaps even more significantly, if they answer this question, it boxes Marvel into what they can and can't do in terms of future storytelling. I don't think it will happen for a while, because the ending was clearly designed to allow Chris Evans to move on, but what if Kevin Feige was able to convince him to come back for one more movie some years down the line?

    There are a lot of interesting possibilities for what you could do with a movie where Steve is once again in the '40s. He is returning to his original time period, but (in a sense) he will still be the man out of time, because he is in the unique position of having been a part of the future. Not only will he know things about future events, and he'd have to decide whether to act on that information or not, but also the cultural norms of today are completely different than they were in the '40s, and he may have a difficult time adjusting backwards. As just one example, Sam Wilson, one of his best friends in the modern day, is a black dude. Steve chose to go back to a time where race relations were very different than they are in the modern era. How does that affect how he behaves in the '40s?

    Any movie about Steve in the '40s at this point would almost certainly have to go into more detail about what the timeline is, so the less they say about the specifics of Steve's situation now, the more wiggle room they have to invent later if such a project were to materialize. I personally think he went to an alternate reality, but I think leaving it non-definitive was the right choice to make. Being 100% clear now means they would be boxed into that answer later. Whether it seems realistic or not, I quite like the idea of maybe seeing Evans reprising this role in the '40s at some point down the line, and I feel like this keeps all their options open to do whatever they think is best for that story, if everyone eventually wants to come back and tell it. I feel like for that to happen, you'd need Evans as well as Markus and McFeely and the Russos (given their extensive histories with this character) to all be on board, and I don't see that happening for a while. But maybe eventually, after having had time away, it could.
     
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  5. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Director

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    At this point, it looks like we're discussing spoilers in the clear. If you haven't seen the movie yet, stop reading now!

    Given that it's presented as an "intro" to be watched before the movie, I think a certain percentage of the people who skipped it in theaters and are seeing the movie for the first time on home video will watch the intro and get spoiled.

    I've seen probably a couple dozen of these option intros on discs before, and none of them have ever spoiled the movie until this one.

    Rewatching the movie Tuesday night on the UHD disc, Silvestri's score was one of the things that really stood out to me. It's magnificent. And because the movie isn't really an action movie until the third act, he gets to do a lot of things musically that you don't usually get to see in a superhero score.

    One of my few disappointments with the Infinity War score was he didn't incorporate any of the individual superhero themes into the score, aside from a brief bit of Ludwig Göransson's Black Panther theme.

    In Endgame, we got bits of Christophe Beck's Ant-Man theme, Michael Giacchino's Doctor Strange theme, and Pinar Toprak's Captain Marvel theme, as well as Silvestri's own Captain America theme from The First Avenger. And he further develops the themes he introduced in the first Avengers in interesting and often exciting ways.

    This will be hard to top as the musical scoring hightlight of 2019 for me:


    I think in both cases it's going to come down to what percentage of each score is considered original, to determine whether they're even eligible to get nominated.

    Yes, Warner Bros.'s rush to Justice League should definitely serve as a cautionary tale about the not earning your big event movies.

    Agreed. Five years is a long time in story time -- the entire Infinity Saga with the exceptions of Captain America: The First Avenger and Captain Marvel takes place over only nine years. Black Widow is presumably going to take place primarily pre-Snap, and the other movies are presumably going to take place post-Blip. Without audiences living those five years with the characters, the writing really needs to work harder to sell the weight of that time jump.

    If that happens, I think the timeline where Steve was reunited with Peggy will definitely be an alternate reality, for the same reason that J.J. Abrams introduced the Kelvin reality for his Star Trek reboot: It allows you to play with beloved characters without having to worry about bumping up against the continuity of other films.

    A world where Captain America comes home from the war with knowledge of the main timeline from 2023 is a very different world. Hydra never gets its tentacles into S.H.I.E.L.D. because Cap knows the threat and is there to stop it. Kennedy never gets assassinated, because Cap knows about Lee Harvey Oswald. Maybe the U.S. never enters Vietnam, because Captain America is a beloved national figure, and he warns the politicians that it will end badly and he won't support it. Maybe Steve is in the South, protecting the Freedom Riders in 1961. They could have a lot of fun with alternate history, sort of like Watchmen only in a more utopian direction.

    It also frees him and Peggy up to have children and grandchildren, who might inherit Steve's superhuman physical conditioning. If one of them clicks with audiences, they can have the character jump to the main MCU reality and further the development of the MCU as a multi-generational story.

    Speaking of: I kind of hope Kevin Feige is looking to MC2 as a model for what the MCU can turn into in the coming decades. That imprint envisioned a Marvel universe where time moved in real time from the early eighties, rather than the ever shifting present of the main Earth-616 continuity. You've got Mayday Parker, Peter's daughter, as Spider-Girl; Cassie Lang, Scott's daughter, as Stinger; Shannon Carter, relative of Peggy and Sharon, as American Dream; and so on.

    I'm not saying that they should literally adapt those comics. But the idea of some of the current heroes dying and retiring and a new generation stepping up, living with the legacy (good and bad) of what the earlier heroes have done is something that should be pursued. It's inevitable we'll get more Iron Man and Captain America movies eventually; but I don't want Tony Stark and Steve Rogers recast in twenty years. Instead, have new characters pick up those mantles.
     
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  6. Message #106 of 122 Aug 18, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
    Dave Moritz

    Dave Moritz Lead Actor
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    I understand this was shot with a IMAX camera but would like to know if they shot on large format 70mm film or was this shot in a digital format. If it was shot at 4K or 6.5K then why would they use a 2K master to upconvert to 4K blu-ray. If it was shot on large format 70mm film why would they not just scan the movie at 4K and make a master as the 2K special effects are already part of the film image. I already purchased the 4K Blu-ray and it does look good dispite using a 2K upconvert but was this the best way to do it? Isn't there a 4K master of this film and why wouldn't they use that as the master for home video? Since I already own this title on 4K UHD Blu-ray and there are so many other titles to add to my collection. Disney IMHO screwed up not releasing this title with a 4K native transfer and not sure if I will repurchase this down the road or not. Granted Marvel/Disney got there money from me as not only did I get End Game but 10 other Marvel titles on the same day as End Game and all on 4K and 10 out of 11 titles where steelbook editions.

    They definitely set it up with Captain America's character to move forward at the end of End Game with his mantle and shield being passed on to another character. And based on who he passed the shield to I am actually looking forward to the next Captain America! The question is how long will Marvel make us wait to see the next Captain America and do they intend to actually continue? And as far as Iron Man goes I do not see any way to make a legitimate come back for Tony Stark. And that being said who would you use to take up the Iron Man mantle and will fans buy into it?
     
  7. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    Shot on the 4K-IMAX branded Arri digital camera, went through postproduction as a 2K DI.

    FWIW, on the digital version of this title, it is noted in the title that the intro contains spoilers.
     
  8. Message #108 of 122 Aug 18, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
    Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    The Falcon and the Winter Soldier will be on Disney+ in 2020 or 2021 (I forget the exact target they announced.) But it's soon.

    The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi were both ruled eligible and both nominated. I can't imagine that The Rise of Skywalker would be deemed ineligible if those two were allowed in. Endgame is another question because, as you noted, it contains many themes from other films and other composers, but we'll see. I think possibly the even bigger question mark is how willing the Academy will be to embrace Endgame, which is a movie that requires you to see and appreciate 21 other films in order to care about it. Out of those 21 previous films, only Black Panther (which is a relatively standalone entry compared to some of the others) received recognition from the Academy, which means they did not connect to the vast mjaority of the MCU films to date. So, even though I think it's great, I also think the awards prospects for Endgame could very well be nominal, because they won't necessarily be able to appreciate this film on the level that the fans do.

    There would be no way to recast these characters in a credible way the current MCU timeline. As long as the MCU is still following the canonical line started with the first Iron Man, Tony Stark is going to have to be dead, and Steve Rodgers is going to have to be retired in the "present day" post-Endgame timeline. It would completely undermine the validity of what has happened in this film. If Marvel did a recast of either of those roles at this point, that would essentially have to be a reboot of the entire MCU. I don't think fans would take kindly to that, and I don't think Marvel wants to wipe away what they've done here, either. So I don't see that happening.

    We know that Thor: Love and Thunder will show us Jane Foster acquiring the power of Thor, but presumably she's not going to "replace" Thor, because Thor is who he is and has been throughout the MCU. I think Marvel will be able to see what the response to this is and can use that moving forward to decide if, when and how they want to bring an "Iron Man" back. In the meantime, they've got a deep bench of newer characters; Black Panther and Captain Marvel have both clicked with audiences in a major way and will be around for a long time to come, and they're about to introduce The Eternals and Shang-Chi to the mix, not to mention whatever they do with the inherited Fox properties. So they don't need to do Iron Man again right away necessarily.
     
  9. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    Another thing that they talked about on the commentary is that the opening scene of Endgame, featuring Hawkeye and his family, was originally supposed to be in the end of Infinity War after Thanos' snap.

    Of course, we know that Hawkeye was not in Infinity War otherwise at all, so when they decided to hold this scene for Endgame, it removed Jeremy Renner from that film entirely.

    This makes me wonder: was he paid for one film or two films? And even if he was paid for two films, how would his pay for one scene in Infinity War (which ended up getting moved) compare to his pay for Endgame, in which he had a much larger presence?

    Because we don't have access to Disney's accounting, I don't know that there is a way to answer this question, but it's interesting to think about.
     
  10. TonyD

    TonyD Who do we think I am?
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    I might be in the minority but I don’t care even a little bit if Renner was paid differently, one movie or two movies. Don’t care.

    What is MC2?

    We watched the 4K disc last night.
    It doesn’t skip and it wasn’t to dark.
    I saw a couple of reviewers say it was dark on their twitter feeds.

    The sound was much better.
    It was louder and “felt” better then the previous batch of 4K Marvel Movies.

    I get that a lot of people pay attention to the score on movies but I’m the opposite for these action based movies.
    I’m just glad if the I don’t even notice the score.

    Anyway I think this movie might break into my top 5 all time favorite movies.

    I love the end with Steve Rogers.
    Seeing him going toe to toe with Thanos and then a few minutes later seeing him as a man who lived a long and apparently fulfilling life is incredible.

    5 stars.
     
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  11. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Director

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  12. TonyD

    TonyD Who do we think I am?
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    Ok but maybe I’m being a stickler but you posted MC2 like it’s common knowledge.
    I still don’t know what it means and what it’s connection to the movies is.

    Is it a comic book?

    Guesss I’ll google it.
     
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  13. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Director

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    It's a comic book imprint; like Vertigo is to DC Comics. Marvel had an entirely different continuity to tell stories roughly 15 years in the future, by setting the events of the main continuity roughly 15 years in the past.
     
  14. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    Not sure exactly where to ask this, and this is probably a question for @David Norman -- any idea why it is that for any in stock Blu-ray from Amazon.co.uk, priority shipping to the U.S. is something like 8 pounds, but for the pre-order of Endgame 3D, it's a whopping 14 pounds? I'd actually be willing to pay more to get it sooner but that's ridiculous.
     
  15. Tino

    Tino Executive Producer
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    Ha. I have absolutely no idea what you just said!;)
     
  16. TonyD

    TonyD Who do we think I am?
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    Yeh I was trying to say that you can’t bring MC2 into it expecting us to know what that is.
     
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  17. TonyD

    TonyD Who do we think I am?
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    Josh there’s been something going on at Amazon UK recently With prices bring lower then usual but shipping went through the roof.
     
  18. Bryan^H

    Bryan^H Lead Actor

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    I never heard of MC2, but I am aware of MC5. "Kick out the jams"!
     
  19. bujaki

    bujaki Producer

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    I just tried a mock order and the shipping were the normal rates.
     
  20. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    It doesn't make sense to me.

    If I put Avengers Endgame 3D in my cart and go to check out, the regular shipping price is the same as it is for other comparable discs, but the priority shipping is 14 GBP. But when I put in a comparable disc, like Captain Marvel 3D, priority shipping for that title is only 8 GBP. So why does priority shipping for Endgame cost six pounds more than any other disc?
     

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