Authorized Dealer Squealer, Warranty Swaranty, B&M BM.

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by John Morris, Aug 11, 2001.

  1. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

    Sorry, but I am just sick and tired of reading the shills of B&M dealers and manufacturers posting that their products are the best under one breadth; and then posting that those "best products" can only be had when bought from a profit inflated seller. Even more disgusting, is when those shills tell us that we do not get a warranty on our paid for product if we buy from the lower cost sellers that they sold to in the first place... in other words, online and mail order??? So, I've decided to start a site which deals with certain authorized companies dealers, and especially those manufacturers which allow warranted ownership outside of the ususual NO? If in the future, I say your unit is covered... it is!!! Or, I'm gonna pay to have it fixed or replaced. >>>>> More to come...
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    Take Care,
    merc
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    DFAST, 5C, DVI, HDCP, SafeAudio, Macrovision and Lewinski!!!
    [Edited last by John Morris on August 11, 2001 at 02:16 AM]
     
  2. Nick P

    Nick P Second Unit

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    John, this is something that should be interesting to watch you investigate because I would think that very few manufacturers of any product offer a full blanket warranty. 99.9 percent have a LIMITED warranty, which means they can exclude anything they want to. I know Denon flat out states in their warranty that one of the LIMITS of the LIMITED warranty is they will not repair or replace free of charge a unit bought from an unauthorized dealer. The warrenty is a contract between the mfg. and the customer and as you know contracts are always full of amendments and clauses. Do I think it's right? No I do not but if it states limited warranty then that's what it is...limited.
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  3. Hank Frankenberg

    Hank Frankenberg Cinematographer

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    John, if you're really going to delve into this subject, please objectively address the legal side of it and do get a plain english translation of the legalese. It would be great if a consumer-product savvy lawyer forum member would volunteer some time to post on your site. Good luck. Say, why not talk to the HTF or HTT admins about making your subject part of one of these large forums?
     
  4. Frank Frandsen

    Frank Frandsen Stunt Coordinator

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    Now that Denon lets Walmart sell their stuff I doubt they have many unauthorized sellers. As far a limited goes I know the warranty also states that some states do not allow limitations to the warranty, Maybe a check with your states attorney general is also in order.
     
  5. Timmy

    Timmy Stunt Coordinator

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    This subject seems to return about every 6 months.
    The "warranty" of an item is what is stated on the written warranty card that is included with the unit purchased.
    Very few require purchase from an authorized dealer. Most just state you must have a dated sales receipt.
    And as far as "limited" warranties, the FTC requires that all warranty exclusions be put in writing; this to keep mfgrs from making-up/changing the rules on a day-by-day basis.
    If in doubt; read the written warranty. Of the HT equipment I own, (Sony ES, Velodyne, Toshiba, Panasonic, PSB, Behringer) none of these require purchase from an authorized dealer for warranty consideration. Parasound, Denon, and just a couple more do indeed state this exclusion in their warranty.
    You may still be denied warranty service from your local B&M if you didn't buy the device from them. This denial doesn't mean the unit has no warranty, just that you would have to ship the device to the factories national repair depot for warranty repair. This is a hassle, and one thing to weigh-in as you decide whether to purchase from a mail-order company. I guess one has to decide how much local service is worth.
     
  6. Nick P

    Nick P Second Unit

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    Frank,
    The exclusion you are referring to says "Some states do not allow limitations on how long an implied warranty lasts and/or do not allow the exclusion of incindental or consequential damages, so the above limitations and exclusions may not apply to you." It does not say they have to give warranty service to a unit bought from an unauthorized dealer.
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  7. Andy Sharp

    Andy Sharp Auditioning

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    I understand everyone wants everything for nothing. I have bought products both via the net and through authorized dealers. I must say when problems have arisen, the authorized dealers have been better at getting me taken care of quickly. IN addition, i have gotten loaner equipment from my dealer so that I would have no down time in my agreement. If its better prices ou want, then they are out there to be had. But, please don't complain when a dealer or authorized service center doesn't honor a warranty. Paying dealer prices keeps someone accountable for servicing any problems you may have. That so called infalted price we pay is for service, and the ability to walk into our local dealer and hear the newest gear when it is available. I agree with some of the other posters that you probably won't find many manufacturers whom will sell there products to your service. And believe me, after you do have to pay for some customers service out of your own pocket, you will be raising your prices to make up for it on your bottom end. Remember, nobody does anything for nothing.
    Andy
    Just MHO
     
  8. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

    quote: Remember, nobody does anything for nothing. [/quote]
    Andy: I don't think I'd call $750 for a new 3802 receiver nothing??? Yet, apparently both Denon and you think so... if we measure that price against the expectation of good customer service? Yet, at the same time online companies like SVS and Outlaw are thriving on providing low prices AND 1st rate customer service. Also, a company like Panasonic can sell the incredibly good RP-91 for less than $500 and provide good customer service too. There are plenty of models for them to follow. It is hard to understand why they refuse to do so???
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    Take Care,
    merc
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    DFAST, 5C, DVI, HDCP, SafeAudio, Macrovision and Lewinski!!!
    [Edited last by John Morris on August 13, 2001 at 06:23 PM]
    [Edited last by John Morris on August 13, 2001 at 06:24 PM]
     
  9. Carlo Medina

    Carlo Medina Executive Producer

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    John,
    SVS and Outlaw are the exception, rather than the rule. I too used to buy everything online. And then I found a local dealer who doesn't feel the need to charge full MSRP, and yet is authorized for all the products they carry. I used to think "who needs this authorized dealer stuff"--right up until my new PT-47 needed servicing. The service company asked to see the receipt and checked that the place I bought it from was authorized. That was a slap in my face, but luckily my dealer was authorized. My dealer also has good relations with the Panny rep, so that if my set is serviced 3 times, they will insist that Panny give me a new set. Granted not all companies are this paranoid about their warranties and "authorized dealer" status, but I'm glad that I don't have to worry about it. To me, a clear conscience is worth a little bit of green.
    For mail order, what is customer service? You have to mail back the unit, usually at your cost, and then wait for it to get back to you. Meanwhile you have no use of the unit. Right now, I'm having house calls by the service company and if my set needs replacing, my dealer will come, pick it up, and drop off the new set. If I ever need to return something, no more calling and getting an RMA and then UPS'ing the darned thing. It's a 20 mile drive and drop-off, full refund at the door. 30-days, no questions asked return policy.
    And as Andy has pointed out, my dealer lets me audition equipment. I've had the RP91 for a few weeks and will now authorize my dealer to charge my card for the purchase. If I didn't like it, I could return it and they would use it as a demo unit.
    Yes, I could save about 10% less and go online. But I choose to give my dealer my money instead. And the trick is to find a local dealer who is friendly, knowledgeable, and gives good prices--mine tend to be about 20% lower than The Big Three (GG/CC/BB). They are out there, it just takes some looking into to find them.
     
  10. Frank Frandsen

    Frank Frandsen Stunt Coordinator

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    Nick,
    I was not really sure of the exact wording on the warranty disclaimer. Thanks for clarifying. In addition to SVS and Outlaw you can add Crutchfield, Cambridge Soundworks and HSU subwoofers to quality mailorder/online retailers.
    Frank
     
  11. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

    Carlos: I hear and understand what you are saying, yet, I've heard it all before. I would love to buy ALL my purchases locally. In fact, I always try to buy locally first by giving the local dealer a chance to earn my business by matching or at least coming close to a reliable online dealer's price. Most times, the local dealer does not want to earn my business. Many times, they do not even want to negotiate over price. Many times, they want the full price-fixed MSRP, or close to it. In those cases, it is not my decision to ignore them. It is fully their decision to refuse my business. When that happens, I document their decision in writing and then buy online. If I need servicing, I have my documented tale to show to the manufacturer, or a judge if needed. NEVER has service been refused to me on an item bought online. This includes a Panasonic DVD player, a Parasound 2200II amp, an Energy speaker, an ATI amp, and a Denon CDR. There have also been some cases, (an ATI amp and a Denon Receiver)where I have contacted the manufacturer and received permission to buy from a non-authorized or non local source, as long as the item was a new A stock unit with valid serial number and registration card.
    So, it seems that as more and more consumers begin to press their rights to buy an item legally, even if online, the more manufacturers will be forced to come along... or perish.
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    Take Care,
    merc
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    DFAST, 5C, DVI, HDCP, SafeAudio, Macrovision and Lewinski!!!
    [Edited last by John Morris on August 13, 2001 at 08:18 PM]
     
  12. MatthewJ S

    MatthewJ S Supporting Actor

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    I think Carlos' take on this is pretty good...I also have read somewhere that some of the bigger chains like cc have decided not to take units in for service unless purchased at their store(i'm not sure of this as it was told to me by an ex cc employee).I have heard that some stores give these e-purchased units a less than quality handling experiance(this kind of bad behavior ,unfortunately gives all of us retailers a black eye).I ALSO agree that some of the faCtory direct companies do a great job with both customer service and marketing .I worked w/bose for some time helping them start-up their factory direct model(and we all know how good a cmpany they are,at marketing ,that is). I bet that there are a lot of forum members ,who also would tout cambridge soundworks product,am I right? As for the e-tailing end you have crutchfield which has probably one of the best phone team customer support in the buis. but alas, they charge retail prices and for that kind of money I could have personal customer service (sometimes even in home)and few of us think it's worth the extra money.So, we look at outlaw & svs, recently selling some fine products in a way that, for those of us who have the luxury of being able to also buy other comporable items at the same time and do side -by-side comparisons in our own home, may make sense...My only concern is that if you look at bose now,you see that they purposely segregate their audio product from other audio product because they know the brain has a limited sonic memory.They also will give people a 30 day money back garuntee because they know people hate to ship things back, hate to unhook their equipment ,hate not to have their sound system, and LOVE to declare that they have the best! WELCOME TO THE RON POPIELing OF AMERICA! How could all those nice people giving their "unsolicited" testimonials be wrong? Bose is the best, everyone tells me so ...the salesman at the store who was suggesting some other system for hundreds less is certainly wrong....
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    Matt says "if you have received good service from a salesman,if he has educated you as to what you should buy, buy from him! not from the internet!"
     
  13. Carlo Medina

    Carlo Medina Executive Producer

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    John,
    I fully understand your frustration. I live in Southern California. There are probably over a hundred HT shops here in the Los Angeles Basin. How many have I found and liked?
    One.
    I'm not saying it would be easy. In fact it probably is easier to buy online and hope for stuff that doesn't need servicing, rather than hunt for a good dealer. But if you chance upon one (a good dealer), they are invaluable.
    Service issues aren't the main reason I buy from my dealer. In truth, I've only had 3 pieces of equipment in the dozens I've bought that needed servicing. It's the fact that a good dealer will set things up for you in store for proper listening/viewing. They will let you demo stuff if you've earned their trust. They will have good working knowledge of their stuff, and they will find out things for you if they don't have the answers. Now finding one is like digging for gold. You get lots of mud and crap, but when you find that nugget at the bottom of the pan...
    A good local dealer is like owning a great subwoofer. If you've never had it, you don't know what you're missing. But once you've had the experience, you never want to give it up. Good luck with your purchases!
     

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