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Audyssey setup question (1 Viewer)

Tubby

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I have read the audyssey sticky but still have a question. I just received my polk rti8 speakers which have two 6.5" woofers and a tweeter and also received a polk subwoofer. When i run audyssey through my onkyo tx-sr606 it is setting my speakers at full band and the sub lfe at 100hz. Would it be better to set the sub at 80hz and the speakers at 80hz or maybe even lower like 50hz? Thanks for any help!
 

David Willow

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It's your receiver that sets the crossover, not Audyssey. It is based on the roll off Audyssey detects. It varies depending on MFG, but I believe Onkyo still used 80hz as the deciding factor.

Absolutely set your mains to 80hz. Set the LFE to 120hz.
 

Tubby

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Why set mains to 80hz if they can handle a lower crossover frequency? And why LFE to 120hz? Wouldn't 80hz be a better LFE since that is where the mains will be? I am not saying I know what I'm talking about just wondering what your reasoning is.
 

JohnRice

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You speakers can't handle 50Hz cleanly at any volume level, or even 80Hz. I would personally try 120Hz on both settings. I doubt you will follow my advice though.

Why set things this way? Because the sub is designed to reproduce bass. It will do a better job than the speakers. So, let it do its job. It will take a significant power load off the receiver and reduce its chance of overload. It will significantly reduce the stress on the speakers, which will make them sound better.
 

Brent_S

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It helps to know all of the components. You don't say which subwoofer model you have, or if you're running center/surrounds.

I don't usually disagree with John, but I do have first hand experience here. I run RTi38s all around, the single woofer (and previous generation) version of your RTi8s. The 38s, with a smaller cabinet and one woofer, are pretty solid down to 50hz (I still xover at 80hz). The RTi8s, with more cabinet volume per driver, are probably tuned a bit lower so should be as or even a bit more capable than the 38s. Polk subs, on the other hand, are usually nothing to write home about.

With that in mind, I would try 60/80hz crossovers as well as full-range and double-bass on/off combinations. Pick the combination you like best...there is no one right answer. With the generally poor objective results I've seen on Polk subs, I think you might just find your best sounding solution will be full range mains and double bass on, but don't expect Reference level playback this way. If you had a more capable sub, I'd stick to the 60-80hz xover range, despite the RTi8s being towers.

When you say "sub LFE", I think you're referring to the "LPF of the LFE". Set it to 120hz. This is not the same as the crossover setting used for bass redirection from mains to sub. It's relatively unique to Onkyo to even allow you to adjust this setting and tends to cause a great deal of confusion. It determines the *upper* limit of the LFE channel playback using a brick wall filter. If you set it lower than 120hz, any information that was mixed into the LFE channel above your chosen frequency will simplly be thrown away and not redirected to any other channel. Engineers don't usually include much information above 80hz in the LFE channel so it's probably no big loss if you set it lower than 120hz, but there's really no valid reason to do so.

-Brent
 

Tubby

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Why can't my speakers handle an 80hz crossover frequency John? And yes i actually will take your advice if I have a good reason why my speakers won't handle 80hz. I am planning on going 80hz now.... unless you can give me a reason to go 120hz. And i will stick with 120hz on the sub like Brent said.
 

gene c

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I owned RTi8's for a year and a half. Even though they have two 6" woofers, deep bass isn't really their thing. Not saying they're bad speakers, just not as deep as you might think. The Rti6's weren't far behind in the low end. Listening at moderate volumes, I used 80hz for music and 100 for movies. To me, 120 would be a bit too high.
 

David Willow

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I'm not familiar with your speakers, so I'll speak generally about speakers and Audyssey. Audyssey measures the speakers in YOUR ROOM and determines their crossovers based on the performance in YOUR ROOM. This may (prolly will) be different from the specs the MFG provides.

We know that the Onkyos make anything that measures better than 80hz 'Full Range'. So we know that Audessey measured at least 80hz for your speakers in your room. This is about all we can tell. It could be that your speakers roll off at 70hz. Or it could be 40hz. There is no way to tell for sure.

My best advice is set them to 80hz and all the sub to handle the rest.
 

JohnRice

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1) It doesn't make sense to decide on the "right" crossover based on speculation. Is there any harm in trying different crossovers, just to see how they work? My reasoning for the crossover on the mains is based on my general rule of trying double their usable low frequency output. This is because most speakers start falling off in their last octave. This also depends on the capabilities of the sub. Some are designed not to go much (if any) over 100Hz, while others can go much higher than that.

The living room system I have with small speakers is actually set to cross over at 150Hz, and since the sub can handle that high a frequency, it actually sounds quite good. Much better than it did when it was at 100Hz, with a sub that fell apart higher than that. There are far too many variables to make an informed decision with what you have provided and are aware of. Once again, it doesn't hurt to try different settings, but you have to actually listen to the results, which most people don't do.

My gut feeling? 80Hz is not going to be quite as good as 100. Just a gut feeling.
 

David Willow

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I agree, but in this case Audyssey has measured the response and it is less than 80hz. We know this because the Onkyo set the speakers to full range. In this case, setting anything higher than 80hz does not make sense.
 

troy evans

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They may very well be able to. Remember, these are suggestions. Here's what I do, I base my crossover setting for all speakers. When doing that, I set it to the range which I know my weakest speakers will reproduce sound best. That falls around 100hz to 120hz. I feel I get a better overall response when all my speakers are set to 100hz. My Onkyo lets me set all speakers at different crossovers, but, I feel having fronts at 80hz or center at 60hz, etc. etc...would wreck the soundfield. Setting speakers to "full band" and turning others down to 60hz would have a negative effect in the overall sound. Now, some people like it when they watch movies and hear doors slam like a clap of thunder. I like sounds reproduced at the intended intensity. You should experiment with the crossovers and see what works best in your system. I will say in regards to setting the crossover on the subwoofer itself, turn it up as high as it'll go. If you have it at 120 and it goes to 180 or so, set it at 180. This will remove the subwoofers crossover from the equation and then you set the receivers crossover to the desired range. If your sub has an internal crossover setting make sure it's deactivated or set to the "direct" setting.
 

JohnRice

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Actually, when all factors are considered, it can not only make sense, but it can make a great deal of sense. There are many benefits to not pushing a speaker to its lower limit, many of which I have already elaborated on. Plus, there is an enormous difference between 80Hz and full range. The faults in the Audyssey calibration (honestly pointed out in the Audyssey thread) which have been forced by manufacturers. That thread gives many valid reasons to tweek the settings (especially the crossover) after the calibration is complete.

Troy's approach has a lot of validity. It's not an uncommon way to do things.
 

gene c

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How much of a factor would the quality of the subwoofer have in determining a crossover setting? Would a lower quality sub when paired with higher quality speakers suggest a lower setting thereby having the poorer sub do as little as possible? Chris makes note of a "Polk" sub. I wonder which one it is?
 

JohnRice

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It wouldn't just be the quality of the sub, but the components and design. The top end capabilities of subs can vary by quite a bit, but this doesn't necessarily have anything to do with their "quality". Robert understands that stuff much better than me.

What I know is, I have a pair of old Hsu passive subs which completely fall apart once they start trying to reproduce a signal over 100Hz and an SVS which handles frequencies at least up to 150 Hz with no trouble. The SVS is a significantly better sub, but I don't think the two factors have much if any connection.
 

David Willow

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Please don't misunderstand me... I'm not saying that tweaking, even after Audyssey is a bad thing. My point is still that we know for sure the speakers can handle 80hz. This has been tested in the OP's room.

It doesn't hurt to try at 100hz. I'm confident that my mains go well below the 80hz that I have them setup for. I choose the higher crossover to lessen the load on my amp and allow my SVS to really do it's job.
 

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