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Audible Component Differences...A Nousaine Story (1 Viewer)

PaulDA

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:D :D :D Now that is seriously funny (and I totally agree). I'd be tempted to use this as my signature if it didn't constitute copyright infringement.

On the beer front, for those of you who like a good stout, the St. Ambroise Oatmeal Stout is superb. In fact, Guiness is a mere training beer for the Oatmeal Stout. Available on tap at Montreal's finest pubs.
 

Michael R Price

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Jul 22, 2001
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Wow, a 2 decibel channel imbalance in the high end system? Was something broken? I seem to have about a 0.5-0.8db balance error, I'm not sure if it's intermittent or consistent... and it bothers me sometimes.

Those 6moons reviews are really fun to read... I thought Stereophile was silly, but they're *way* over the top. They recently posted an article about a $600 upgrade to the Bel Canto switching amplifiers, and they were most enthusiastic about replacing a single pair of capacitors with new ones: "a double metalized polypropylene German part with much better slew rate and AC specs as well as a higher quality dielectric." As far as I can tell they're completely identical to the ones I bought at Digikey for some 50 dollar chip amps. :)
 

Yogi

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Jul 25, 2002
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I hate mag reviews. I have never seen any professional mag give any component a bad rating. Everything they review is good. Everything is a 'good value for the money'. Everything ends with 'would seriously consider/recommend it'. Everything is 'the best I have heard in its price range'...yada..yada. Then what is bad? Something that doesn't get reviewed?
 

TimMc

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Dec 30, 2002
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Wade -

I think that Bruce Coppola has snagged a number of these articles. Found the Urban Legends one at http://bruce.coppola.name/audio/urbanLegends.pdf

Don't know if I can find all the links from this machine, but I think there are tons of other fun lists. Coppola's site also has the "10 Audio Lies" at http://www.bruce.coppola.name/audio/TenAudioLies.pdf and the Burn-in Myth at http://bruce.coppola.name/audio/BurnInLegend.pdf.

I know these are also somewhere else but like I hinted none of the links are stored on this 'puter. I also know that the PDF's from the Coppola site may seem to load pretty darned slow but it's usually worth the wait...
 

Kevin C Brown

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Yogi- There is truly a bad review of the Marantz 8400 universal player in the latest issue of WSR. :)

Bad deinterlacing, bad chroma bug, and bad bass management. I was surprised they were as honest as they were.

In general, sure, reviewers typically don't "badly" review eqp. But I still wholeheartedly think that you *can* learn a lot about pieces of equipment by what they do say. For example, there is a big difference to me between saying the worst thing about receiver A is that it has a crappy remote, vs receiver B that is underpowered. The first won't affect sound quality, but the 2nd definitely will.
 

Chu Gai

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Given the poor review, did they either contact the manufacturer or get another sample?
 

Kevin C Brown

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That's just it: it's a representative sample. The 8400 is based on the Pioneer 47a. That player is almost 3 generations old (47a to 47ai to 59 AVi). Just the way it was back then.
 

Craig Morris

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I recently connected my DVD-A to my system for the first time. I've had the Panny RP-91 for nearly 3 years but never tried the DVD-A section.

I bought The Best of REM because I noticed it had 24/192 stereo (I'm not interested in surround music thanks) and I was able to compare the tracks to my REM cd's. Was there a difference? Yes. Can I describe what it was? No. Flipping back and forth with both playing I found myself stopping to enjoy both formats. There was no massive difference. I know I shouldn't judge based on ONE dvd-a title... but let's just say I'm now happy I haven't run out and bought a DVD-A/SACD player. Especially since it took me an hour browsing in Best Buy to find ONE title that I was interested in buying. There were a few more SACD's that I would have been willing to try... but I can't play 'em.

OK... enough rambling. My point to contribute to this thread is try before you buy. I've returned power conditioners and cables before because they made no difference in my system. This is in contrast to a guy I work with who has spent more on cabling and tweaking and power conditioning than on his entire system... every time he adds a damping plate or whatever he swears up and down about the miracle it has performed on his system. To each his own.
 

gene c

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I once read DVDETC. say speaker wire costing $80 a foot represented "good value for the money"! Not my money. Anyway, there is a difference in some things like speakers, receivers (my H/K 520 has much better stereo separation than my Onkyo HT-500 but also cost three times as much) and hopefully tv's. Whether you can tell which is which in a blind comparison is another matter. But not as much with cables and wires. I just finished up-grading my H/K room (520, DVD-5, 8380,CDR-20, G.E 35" and Hughes Tivo) with new cables/wires not expecting to see/hear a big difference, but because it seemed like the right thing to do. Previously the wiring was a big mess and poorly installed. By me! Spent $150-175 and took two days (home built ETC in big closet. Very difficult to re-wire). Now I'm content knowing the set-up is complete and can sit back and enjoy my HT with a cold drink (sorry beer guy's, I'm a Dr. Pepper person:) ) and a clear conscience. In other words, whether it be HT or any other part of life, I do what seems like the right thing to do even if it might make no difference at all. Just keep the cost in line with the components. As for mag articles, I read them but don't live and die with their results. Just another source of info. As for blind side-by-side tests, the results could indeed be embarrassing. I'd hate to find out I like "Dr. Skipper" better than my Dr. Pepper!:b
 

Lewis Besze

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This palyer got a "class B" in Stereophool for audio only.
Michael Fremmer in the same mag gave a not too enthusiastic review of Theta's new monoblock amp[14k/pair]citing that it doesn't sound like his favorite tube amp.:D No shit!
Theta responded,that it would have been nice if the author had disclosed his obvious bias towards tube equipment first and foremost.:) I love this mag! :D
 

Chu Gai

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Stereophool has actually gotten a bit better IMO.
So we're comparing two different purchases. Think they were both mastered the same?
 

John Robert

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The tough question is, if the "perceived" improvement of my new tweak enhances my enjoyment of my system, was the purchase worth it?
 

Jerry Parker

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Ive come to the conclusion that MOST components/tweaks/etc. that have people arguing that there would be no possible audible difference with or without them are probably not going to make a difference. ;)

For instance, I don't think I've heard anyone say two pairs of speakers sound the same :D
 

Craig Morris

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Yep. Comparing old REM cd's to the new Best of.
Not sure on the mastering... I think the label said "newly remastered in high-resolution"... or something to that effect.

I guess maybe the full quality would only show through on something recorded in high-rez originally? I dunno... I never said it was scientific. :)
 

Chu Gai

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The point I wanted to make Craig is not that there weren't audible differences nor that you had a distinct preference for one or the other. Rather it wasn't so much the medium as it was that the mastering was different.
You see, with respect to say Sony and SACD, Sony never ever ever created two versions that were the same. Hence they never allowed a scenario wherebye people could do a real fair comparison. In a notable example, the DSOTM release, which is quite nice, people have taken various songs and run them through programs like Cool-Edit and found that portions of the songs (CD layer) have been recorded too hot and hence clipped.
So if we've got two distinct recordings, how is anyone able to tell if one medium is better in some audible way than another? The playing field just isn't leveled.
 

Rich Wenzel

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Aug 9, 2002
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Chu,

I wasn't saying that this was a DBT, however, I should have elaborated more. Most people think that DBT's are the best, this was not as good as a DBT. I am saying that DBT's are not 100% conclusive. That's all.

in response to:

If none of this stuff makes any difference, the only things we should look at are features and reliability...
Says who? What about...
ease of use
service
availability
resale value
appearance
preferences for a certain methodology
status
bragging rights
exclucivity
warranty
add whatever you want


my point of reliability would incorporate service and warranty

my point of features would include appearance and ease of use.

As for bragging rights, its hard to brag about two things that perform exatlyt he same. There is no subjectivity to it. If that's the case, status goes away (which seems kind of redundant with bragging rights) and for that matter so does exclusivity.

Im not sure what you mean by preference for a certain methodology.

in response to:

if that is the case, how does this industry exist?
Same way lots of industries exist like cosmetics, shampoos, bottled water, sugar, salt...marketing and advertising with hopefully bona fide science making sense of it all.


there are real measurable differences between using different types of shampoos, cosmetics, and water. If I use certain types of shampoos, my scalp itches, i dont wear cosmetics, but i have seen women's skin react differently, and on water, well, poland spring has higher levels of arsenic, so i dont consider this at all comparable to saying that there is no discernible audio difference between amps, cables, etc.

I have no opinion on sugar and salt, and am not aware of any big bragging rights, status, etc that get from owning one brand versus others. Nor of any magazines, forums, or specialty shops offering that there is a large difference.

In respnose to:

why do i bother with anything but the cheapest stuff?
Because of items that I listed above for starters. Because you're human. Because as your disposable income goes up so does your appreciation or desire for things that reflect upon it. Would Emeril serve his creations on Chinet and Wallmart plates?
But consider for the moment the persons who post here and elsewhere and they're looking for a soup to nuts system for say $2k. Maybe less. Now if he drops $200 on interconnects when he could've done it for $50 and he drops $400 for some Monster Power Conditioner when he could've done $50 for an Isobar and he drops $600 on a CD player when he could've got a pretty decent all-in-one for say $200, then there ain't a hell of a lot left over for speakers and a receiver is there? What about some prudent thinking here? He's left with $800 going the 'everything matters route and with the other approach, he's got $1700. Do some careful refurb receiver shopping, maybe a used SVS and he's got a pretty fair amount of cash to drop on some nice speakers. Maybe enough for a case of beer and pizza to have his friends over.
When you've got tons of money, you just don't care anymore. When you're on a budget, with a mortgage, kids, rising taxes, planning for retirement, things get a little more real.

Since I don't agree with you said previously, I can't agree with this. I have radioshack cabling/interconnects and some cheaper stuff i got off the net, such as AR. I was considering a $4k amp and was going to use the same cabling. Why? cause a while ago, me and 2 friends used 3 different interconnects and couldnt tell the difference in a SBT. Also, i bought my maranct 4000ose and rotel 955 and compared it to a cheap technics and a my denon dvd player...We couldnt tell the difference in a SBT either. I have no intention of upgrading my cd player or my wiring (unless i need longer runs, which case i will go the cheapest route). So, rather unsuccinctly, why would I buy anything but the cheapest stuff?

Rich
 

Rich Wenzel

Supporting Actor
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Aug 9, 2002
Messages
556
im balding by day, i definitely have a sensitive scalp :)

going to the HT shows this week?

I'll be there.

Rich
 

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