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ATMOS setup (1 Viewer)

daddyora

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New to the forum, old to the world. New house, new HT setup. Somewhat like learning a new language and difficult for me. 5.1.2 system with 65" Samsung TV, Yamaha Aventage RX-A660 avr, Sony X700 dvd, cable box, Roku, turntable, CD changer, distributed audio via MusicCast/Yamaha amps. All but dvd and TV located in electronic closet 25' from HT room. Had 5.1 setup in previous home so kinda used to it after 2 yr, sometimes painful, learning curve. What's new is the ATMOS capability. I think that the avr recognizes the "presence" speakers (2 in-ceiling) because when I run a test tone it cycles thru them but I don't seem to detect a height presence when I listen to appropriate Blu-ray movies. Surrounds are certainly working. I realize that the "object based" image moves around and that with only 2 ceiling speakers I may not get the full effect but how do I tell if it is working as best it can ? I might note that the dvd player is under the TV, attached to a separate HDMI input to the TV and run via cat 6 back to the avr in the closet. Sorry for the long-winded question but wanted to explain my issue best that I could.
 

JohnRice

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I might note that the dvd player is under the TV, attached to a separate HDMI input to the TV and run via cat 6 back to the avr in the closet
Would you explain how that’s achieved? The fact is, you’re probably not getting real surround sound at all, because running the signal through the TV results in two channel audio.
 

daddyora

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definitely have 5.1 and all 7 speakers showing on Yamaha avr screen. I assume that video goes directly to TV and audio is funneled thru avr via cat 6 cable (balons ??). But, not 100% sure how the tech works however.
 

JohnRice

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I can't help if I don't know how the components are connected. Sorry. There's just no way I'm aware of to troubleshoot without knowing how it's set up to begin with. Other than just making guesses.
 

Mark-P

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I don't know how cat-6 cable is possibly going to carry an Atmos signal. Atmos, DTS-HD Master Audio, and Dolby True HD all have to run through HDMI due to the encryption specifications.
 

daddyora

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Mark - my system was setup: TV and BD player in HT room, all other electronics in A/V closet approx 25 ft away. Professionally wired and setup during new house construction. Looks like TV to BD video is via HDMI direct to TV and BD to avr is via coax/cat 6/coax I assume using baluns. BD is set to bitstream (auto).
 

JohnRice

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Unfortunately, coax is only capable of 5.1 DD/DTS. So, no HD audio, and no Atmos. I'm not aware of any way to get HD audio or Atmos to your receiver with that configuration, though it might exist. Unfortunately, a lot of "professional" installers don't understand what they're doing and the intricacies of home theater audio. Or, they simply don't explain the downsides of what they propose.
 

daddyora

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Aha, explains why I was getting 5.1 but not 7.1.2 !!! I went back and made sure that the ceiling speakers were loud enuf and that BD player was on bitstream (it was). Test tones cycle thru ok but ... Thanks, now back to the "professional".
 

JohnRice

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Your receiver can synthesize fake Atmos, which might be the suggestion you receive. You do that by enabling Dolby Surround, DTS Neural, or one of the other options. That will activate the ceiling speakers, but it's synthetic Atmos.
 

JohnRice

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One solution, using a UHD player that has dual hdmi outputs. Every UHD player(but rarely regular Blu-Ray players) I'm aware has a second hdmi output specified for audio only. You should be able to run a second, active (powered) hdmi cable from the player to the receiver. So, that means running another wire, which might not be feasible.

A cable like THIS, which is available in lengths up to 60 ft.

BTW, active cables are directional. They MUST be installed in the correct direction. The "source" end would be at the player, and the "display" would be at the receiver.
 
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daddyora

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Thanks John. Note that in the Monoprice Q/A they (staff) claim that this active cable will NOT support ATMOS. Do you know otherwise ?
 

daddyora

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Another question John (this stuff is like learning a foreign language), is it easier to transmit the UHD video signal over 50 ft of cable or the ATMOS audio signal. My Sony X700 dvd does have 2 HDMI connections and I could leave it where it is under the TV and run a long wire (50 ft) back to the avr for audio or put it close to the avr and run the long wire for video. I have extra cat 6 lines but would need to run a 50 ft HDMI line
 

JohnRice

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There's no need to run the 4K (UHD) video all the way back to the receiver, especially since it has to come all the way back to the TV again.

I'd only send the audio back to the receiver, which does put a LOT less demand on the hdmi cable than video will. From what I'm picturing in the system, I'd keep the player where it is, and send audio only back to the receiver using hdmi. Those long, active hdmi cables could (probably will) eventually become insufficient for video, but I can't imagine them ever becoming insufficient for audio only. Also, that particular cable I linked to is CL2 rated, for in-wall use. Others probably aren't
 

JohnRice

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Thanks John. Note that in the Monoprice Q/A they (staff) claim that this active cable will NOT support ATMOS. Do you know otherwise ?
I'll have to look closer at that. I'm slammed at the moment. I don't know why it wouldn't, as long as it's transmitting audio only. Audio and 4K video together, it might not. In any case, you'd definitely want to test it before installing it in the wall. Better safe than sorry.
 

JohnRice

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The latest standard for total hdmi compatibility requires 18Gbps transmission, but that's for 4K video at 60Hz, I think, and you just need to transmit Atmos audio alone. That cable is 10.2Gbps. Since it's only ever intended to carry audio, and no video, I'd think that would be far more than needed, but I'm just not up on the nitty gritty of it to the level. Maybe someone else can chime in.
 

xx Brian xx

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If there is a single coax coming from the Blu-ray to a little box and then cat6 to the closet, I would bet they set up a digital to analog convertor and are using the digital out on the bluray. In this case you are not getting Atmos.

Why not move the bluray to the closet and connect it directly to the receiver?

How are they getting the video signal from the receiver to the TV? I would call back the professionals and have them explain how all this is working - or not working.

Brian
 

PCRIDE

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I found this video yesterday which helped me understand all the connection types and cables that must be used for 4K and the audio pass through to work correctly.

 

daddyora

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If there is a single coax coming from the Blu-ray to a little box and then cat6 to the closet, I would bet they set up a digital to analog convertor and are using the digital out on the bluray. In this case you are not getting Atmos.

Why not move the bluray to the closet and connect it directly to the receiver?

How are they getting the video signal from the receiver to the TV? I would call back the professionals and have them explain how all this is working - or not working.

Brian
OK, finally got that move completed. Relocated the DVD player to the AV closet and hooked up via HDMI directly to the AVR. I now seem to be getting ATMOS in my HT room ! Thanks to all for the guidance.
 

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