Atlantic Technology Preamp? P2000 looks just like Outlaw? (1 Viewer)

[Patrick R. Sklenar]

As for other suppliers (e.g., DSP chip), it's unclear how much of a role Outlaw has with them versus Eastech's role.

Doug,
Nice analysis. How close you are to the truth? Would be nice to know, but considering the Outlaw is a privately held company ... I doubt we'll find out any time soon. {shrug}
The one real comment I've got about your analysis has to do with the bit I quoted above. Based on the comments I've seen attributed to the Cirrus reps at the show, it sounds like they worked extensively with Outlaw's designers directly. So at this point, I'm still leaning towards Outlaw really being the designer and Eastech really being the pure manufacturer. Of course, I have been wrong before.

 

[GregoriusM]

I agree with Rob and Patrick.

 

[Bob-N]

What a mess. Kinda reminds me of the car companies and rebadging:

suburban = yukon xl

rodeo = passport

talon = eclipse

prism = corolla

rendevous = aztec

land cruiser = LX570? (you get the idea...)

Although I must say that the brushed alum bezel on the AT unit does look better in the pics but I don't think it's worth the extra $300-700 (or whatever $$).

I say "just ship the damn things already!" My amp is in the garage along with my center just itching to get out of their boxes to play.

 

[Razvan V]

How about this Eastech announcement (August 2001):

" Products Under Development:

Product name: PP-2001 Tuner - Pre AV/Processor

• Dolby Digital/Dolby Pro-Logic II/dts/dts ES processor with tuner

• Zone output

• Digital tuner

• Dot-matrix 2 lines fluorescent display

• Full function remote control

• Centralised micro-controller"

Aren't they in fact talking about the Outlaw 950?

And how about this ( August 2001):

"EASTECH is also currently introducing its Internet Radio/Audio OEM module in the market. In a recent report by Cahners-In-Stat, a high-tech market research firm, sales of Internet appliances will grow by more than 40 percent each year between 2000 and 2005. With this module, EASTECH can offer customers an opportunity to tap into this fast-growing

market and ride on its growth. Among the the key features of this module is its ability to integrate Internet radio and audio into traditional home theatre systems. The system supports WMA and MP3 formats and is a stand-alone system does not require a PC to set-up or operate. It connects

to the Internet via an internal 56K modem, DSL or cable modem and supports up to 4,000 radio stations and

Internet audio sites. As for its analogue specifications, they are:

• DAC resolution: 24 bits

• Frequency response:

20-19kHz +/- 3dBUnit THD: 0.03%

• DAC Dynamic range: -80dB min.

• Unit THD + noise: -74dB FS min.

• Full scale output voltage:

4.7v P-P min.

• External load impedance:

1.0K ohms min."

Isn't this the Internet Radio unit announced by Outlaw at CES?

Razvan

 

[Will]

Would be nice to know, but considering the Outlaw is a privately held company ... I doubt we'll find out any time soon. {shrug}

We might not find out much more from them. But thanks to Cirrus Logic, Eastech, Atlantic Technology and others, there are many clues out there, as we've seen already on this thread, based upon people looking things up on the internet (like Eastech's home page and that interview with the Cirrus Logic engineer).

 

[GordonL]

For the price difference, there's no way the two are going to be identical. AT has got to do something to differentiate their version otherwise it will never sell. I suspect it's going to be similar to the Outlaw 750/ATI 1505 situation, with AT using upgraded components and possibly THX certification.

 

[John Morris]

Gordon: Hmmm, I don't know about that. Just selling a product from a B&M requires a heck of alot of markup just so the B&M can pay their bills. Just take a look at the price differences for the same Denon receiver between an etailer and a store like Tweeter. The Tweeter price on the same item can almost be double in some instances. Now, figure into that calculation if the etailer didn't need to make any money on this sale either... that's how companies like Outlaw and SVS can sell such high value components for alot less... no middlemen at all!

 

[Will]

The other thing is Atlantic Technology products are sold today online at, in many cases deep discounts from the MSRP. So it's hopeful the Atlantic Technology pre/pro can be purchased online, like the Outlaw pre/pro, without the Brick and Morters markup.

In time we'll learn if there are any differences between the Atlantic Technology pre/pro and the Outlaw pre/pro internally. I bet that information will be forthcoming, along with if the Atlantic Technology pre/pro's have to wait until after the Outlaw starts shipping, before being allowed to ship. Right now we really don't know what the business relationship is between Atlantic Technology and Outlaw.

 

[Patrick R. Sklenar]

And another thought has occured to me this morning ... while "we", here online, seem to know all about this 950/P2000 situation ... "we" are definitely in the minority. According to AT's web site, their higher end pieces are only available from B&M dealers, only the lower end lines are available from online retailers. I think it's safe to assume that the P2000 will be lumped in with their high end lines and limited to only B&M retailers ... thus the vast majority of the potential P2000 customers will very likely know next to nothing about Outlaw, the AT-Outlaw relationship (what ever that really is) nor the relationship between the 950 & the P2000.

This may well be nothing more than a "tempest in a teacup" as far as AT is concerned due to the totally unrelated customer bases? Just a thought. {shrug}

 

[Nikos S]

"we" are definitely in the minority. According to AT's web site, their higher end pieces are only available from B&M dealers, only the lower end lines are available from online retailers.

Time will change that. I believe that the majority of consumers in the market for the AT pre/pro will most likely research it on the internet. By the time of its release, there should be enough resources on the internet to make the consumer aware of the similarities of both units.
With that in mind, I truly believe that the AT pre/pro will offer some performance advantages over Outlaw's. Regardless of what theories we post on these boards, it does not make sense for AT to offer an identical product at a MSRP mark up of $700 US.
Then again, I'm also speculation
Are there any other companies we can compare that offer identical units with varying MSRPs of at least $500 US?
Nikos

 

[John Morris]

it does not make sense for AT to offer an identical product at a MSRP mark up of $700 US.

Nikos: why not? Tweeter does it every day on practically every product they sell.

 

[Robert Woods]

EXACTLY!!!!

People are paying 2X as much almost every minute for something than someone else.

Who is so naive to think that everyone aims for the lowest price???? God knows there are millions of snobs that wouldn't want to be caught DEAD paying the lowest price!!!

 

[Jim_C]

I don't know what I'd do when acutally pulling out my credit card but sitting here at the computer I'd say that I'd be willing to pay more for the AT version of the 950. Maybe I'm a superficial idiot but I DO care how my equipment looks. I don't like the looks of the Outlaw logo/button. The question for me will be how much of a difference am I willing to pay. I can safely say that $200 extra will be no problem. By the time I'm shopping for a pre/pro I suspect the introductory price of the 950 will be gone so the price difference will be even less than it is now.

At this point my choices are down to the new Rotel, AT, and the 950.

 

[Rob Curtis]

Jim,
I agree the AT looks better, but for $200 I can get used to the cowboy, and I think I can get some black model paint to cover the green button.
It's actually just the button I really object to anyway, and I know I can tastefully modify it to suit my needs.
Hell, maybe I can make it have a green and black marble look, that might be very cool

 

[GordonL]

Just selling a product from a B&M requires a heck of alot of markup just so the B&M can pay their bills. Just take a look at the price differences for the same Denon receiver between an etailer and a store like Tweeter. The Tweeter price on the same item can almost be double in some instances.

When a B&M dealer (Tweeter) carries a product, he is usually assigned a territory to ensure there is minimal competition and to keep prices at or near MSRP. No sane dealer will carry a product that is identical to one being sold by an authorized e-tailer at steep discounts. He will not be able to compete. It just won't happen. If the product was truly identical, what's to prevent people from auditioning the product at the dealer but buy it on-line for steep discounts? What incentive does the dealer have for carrying the product? None! In cases where you do find the identical product sold by an e-tailer at steep discounts, more often than not, the e-tailer is not an authorized dealer and usually obtains supply from unauthorized channels. This is why manufacturer will often say purchases from unauthorized dealers voids the warranty. The manufacturer will only support the authorized dealer. This is why AT has to do something to differentiate the P2000. The best way to do it is with upgraded components and/or THX certification.

 

[John Morris]

Gordon: Here is an example:

Sony SCD-c555es SACD Player

Tweeter - $1699.99 plus tax

Onecall - $824 delivered

Both of these dealers are authorized dealers for this product.

Even if you could get Tweeter to deal down to $1200 plus tax, you would still save a significant amount on this unit. As you mentioned, there are zillions of examples more if you include un-authorized dealers who are selling the exact same units.

 

[Chip E]

Oade Bros - SCD-C555ES $800.00 delivered My guy at Tweeter coudn't touch that price, he told me so...

 

[Kevin T]

1699.99? i thought sony lowered the MSRP on the 555 to $1199? i still understand your point but i think that the former MSRP is a bit "dated" as razvan would say.

kevin t

 

[John Morris]

Kevin: I just got that price from the Tweeter web site. It may have been lowered at store level to the price you quoted, so yes, both me and the Tweeter web site may be "dated".

 

[Chip E]

Tweeter still has it at $1699.00