"AT LONG LAST LOVE" , "Where's Charley?" "Song of Norway" Status on musicals misfires (1 Viewer)

[Rob_Ray]

"Cleopatra" was filmed as Two movies, then released as one. If the two films had remained Fox might have made more money and the cost would have been split bewteen the two films - possibly earning each a profit - and giving the public two excellent films instead of one above average film

It's too bad they couldn't release it as two movies, but Zanuck was smart to release it as one, because the main reason it was the must-see movie that summer was to watch Taylor and Burton together after the many, many months of notorious publicity. But Burton's hardly in part one at all and who knew if their affair be yesterday's news by the time part two hit theatres? Zanuck wisely wanted to strike while the iron was hot and he probably made the right decision from a commercial standpoint if not an artistic one. Cleo-mana was so intense from late 1961 through the initial release in 1963 that everybody probably had had enough by year's end.

 

[NY2LA]

"A dozen people" isn't going to cut it, except maybe as a MOD disc (like LOST HORIZON '73). CLEOPATRA is certainly better known than AT LONG LAST LOVE, which is recalled, if at all, as a career-killing disaster.

And so many people take such delight in referring to it that way.... Like a dog views a fire hydrant. Whose careers were killed? Reynolds, Shepherd, Kahn, Hillerman, Brennan, Bogdanovich all went on to make other movies and TV shows.
ALLL didn't cost all that much to begin with. Cleopatra cost so much that Fox had to sell off the backlot for what is now Century City. Now THAT was a disaster, and it actually did kill at least ONE career. I'm sure Greg can name who it was.
Your claim that NO ONE is going to want to buy this, even with extras, is based on nothing but pure opinion and is flat out wrong, at that. You might say you don't think it will hit the bestsellers list, but to insist NO ONE cares if added content is there just has no evident basis in fact.
Saying that no one but Criterion does "bells and whistles" releases is again off base. First of all no one here suggested ALLL be a four disc ultimate collectors edition. Secondly I buy discs with a good amount of extras on them all the time. In fact that it is ALL I buy. If there is nothing but the movie, I can DVR it from cable or access it from streaming Netflix.
We were only saying it was at least conceivable to get Shepherd, Reynolds and Bogdanovich to do a commentary and maybe a sit down interview, and we'd like to see all the available footage included. There is probably a production short from the time available. Doesn't require a lot of money or effort to include such things. Doesn't hurt to ask. Studios aren't necessarily dead set against added material - it just doesn't occur to them - and from my own experience - if they find out something won't cost much and they have room for it, they're up for it.

 

[NY2LA]

It's too bad they couldn't release it as two movies, but Zanuck was smart to release it as one, because the main reason it was the must-see movie that summer was to watch Taylor and Burton together after the many, many months of notorious publicity. But Burton's hardly in part one at all and who knew if their affair be yesterday's news by the time part two hit theatres? Zanuck wisely wanted to strike while the iron was hot and he probably made the right decision from a commercial standpoint if not an artistic one. Cleo-mana was so intense from late 1961 through the initial release in 1963 that everybody probably had had enough by year's end.

I think if he were REALLY smart, he would not have wasted all that expensive extra footage and left the door open for an expanded two-part version to be released later. He threw the baby out with the bathwater

 

[GMpasqua]

Watched some ALLL clips on you tube - you know you really got to hand it the actors - they had to sing their songs live - and you'll notice they were done in one take - no quick edits like today - or even any edits like the 50's and 60s. Even with a playback the actor's vocals are mixed from different takes to make the ultimate version, very rarely does a song come from one take. (Even the best recording artists use multible takes when releasing an album)

Must be hard getting four actors to sing on pitch and not to a playback while extras are running around in central park etc and everyone getting it right at the same time. At least with a playback you know the tempo and pitch are correct and will not change and all the actors won't sound out of breath while dancing. With a playback all they have to do is lip sync correctly while acting/dancing


Cybil is no Julie Andrews, but she's also not Lucille Ball. Her voice sounds fine. Burt Reynolds comes off very good (He and Madeline Khan actually got good reviews in the New York Times) Would be nice to see the version the studio liked and not the chop job released to theaters.

I would give this one a chance when released on DVD or Blu. It may be a fun film in the new cut. PB's career hit a low point in the mid 70's with three failed films. According to the you-tube doc the director released "Nickelodeon" in black and white on video as he originally wanted to film it and the interviewer agreed it worked much better in B&W, and that film also was not a bomb but didn't live up to expectations.

 

[Bob Cashill]

Apparently the upcoming film of LES MISERABLES will be sung live.

 

[GMpasqua]

Originally Posted by Bob Cashill /t/318244/at-long-last-love-wheres-charley-song-of-norway-status-on-musicals-misfires/60#post_3897308
Apparently the upcoming film of LES MISERABLES will be sung live.

From what I've heard only parts of it - and that does make me wonder how good it will be (esp since the whole film is sung-through)

Hollywood still doesn't get it. In the 40's MGM perfected musical films - how to do them, the length, the editing, the dubbing, the technical aspects.

Then every once in a while someone comes along and thinks he can make it better "more real" Musicals aren't real to begin with, making them seem real only makes the songs stick out like a sore thumb. Singing to a playback maintains the consistently of the song. Unless you have a Judy Garland or Barbra Streisand singing a solo piece on a quiet sound stage - it's a very hard thing to do. And quick editing may hide the fact the actor can't dance, but it also makes the dance uninteresting and the audience feels cheated, the wow did you see that factor is completely lost

With "Les Miz" you have actors who can sing - but none of those actors has ever made a film musical before (except HBC - who really couldn't sing even with the help of a playback and multible takes/recording tricks)

Plus, while singing live you have to limit your movement, unlike a playback where you can run around and swing from the lamp posts if you wanted too

 

[NY2LA]

From what I've heard only parts of it - and that does make me wonder how good it will be (esp since the whole film is sung-through)
Hollywood still doesn't get it. In the 40's  MGM perfected musical films - how to do them, the length, the editing, the dubbing, the technical aspects.
Then every once in a while someone comes along and thinks he can make it better  "more real" Musicals aren't real to begin with, making them seem real only makes the songs stick out like a sore thumb. Singing to a playback maintains the consistently of the song. Unless you have a Judy Garland or Barbra Streisand singing a solo piece on a quiet sound stage - it's a very hard thing to do. And quick editing may hide the fact the actor can't dance, but it also makes the dance uninteresting and the audience feels cheated, the wow did you see that factor is completely lost
With "Les Miz" you have actors who can sing - but none of those actors has ever made a film musical before (except HBC - who really couldn't sing even with the help of a playback and multible takes/recording tricks)
Plus, while singing live you have to limit your movement, unlike a playback where you can run around and swing from the lamp posts if you wanted too

Good points, all. One must wonder what were considered to be the real merits vs the drawbacks of singing live vs. prerecording. But even pre-recording does not guarantee a good performance (Mr. Brosnan) or staying on the beat. Since music is an essential part of a musical, it always baffles me when someone deliberately sings counter to the beat, especially when that tempo, cadence or whatever it's called (clarification, Greg?) is essentially the hook of the song. Evita was written for a strident bitch with lots of verbal attack in the songs and very catchy tempos. They cast Madonna, which would seem to be perfect. but then she decides Evita was a saint and sings against all the rhythm in the songs. WTF?
I rather liked Cybill's voice. At the time ALLL came out she recorded a Cole Porter album which I liked very much and demonstrated undeniable vocal ability. The soundtrack album, however, illustrates how she ended up having to combine the vocals with the witty banter style of the movie. I was led to believe at the time that Bogdanovich had decided to let them record live because it was hard to lip-synch. But I don't think Cybill, Madeline or even Eileen Brennan would have had that much trouble, and the men maybe could have been helped. The beat for "Find me a Primitive Man" is very catchy on Cybill's album, of course it is dead on consistent. In the movie Madeline is less so but that could also be the softer arrangement, as I don't doubt her ability. Even in the finished film, you can hear Cybill keeping to the beat as much as possible.

 

[GMpasqua]

Madeline and Eileen had both played the leading singing roles in quite a few Musicals on Broadway:

Brennan:
Little Mary Sunshine
Hello Dolly (as Irene Molloy)

Kahn
On the 20th Century
also featured in (Two by Two, Promises Promises - though her role was cut prior to the Bway opening)

both were top singing actors in their day, of course Kahn also stole the film of "Blazing Saddles" for with her song "I'm Tired"

 

[Professor Echo]

Not technically a musical, though it did have its narration sung (!?), whatever happened to THE GREAT WALTZ from 1972? That played in 70mm, but was it reserve seats? I watched it letterboxed on 16mm in the 80's and thought it one strange movie with that singing narrator.

 

[Matt Hough]

Originally Posted by GMpasqua /t/318244/at-long-last-love-wheres-charley-song-of-norway-status-on-musicals-misfires/60#post_3897348
Madeline and Eileen had both played the leading singing roles in quite a few Musicals on Broadway:

Brennan:
Little Mary Sunshine
Hello Dolly (as Irene Molloy)

Kahn
On the 20th Century
also featured in (Two by Two, Promises Promises - though her role was cut prior to the Bway opening)

both were top singing actors in their day, of course Kahn also stole the film of "Blazing Saddles" for with her song "I'm Tired"

Kahn was also in New Faces of 1968 and scored a big hit even though the show didn't run very long (a couple of months). She's priceless on the original cast album of thatg show.

 

[NY2LA]

My first exposure to Madeline Kahn was when I was taken to see Two by Two on Broadway. She was in the souvenir book and on the cast album but not in the playbill as she had left (I think to do What's Up, Doc?) When that came out I put two and two together and realized we had just missed her. Also saw On the Twentieth Century when the show (and Kevin Kline) was new. My last contact was when she did her last Broadway show and had left her coat where I was working the night before. We had heard she was sick. I think I took the call when her assistant called, and before it was picked up I strongly considered putting some kind of politely appreciative note in the pocket. Not sure if I did or not, but she was gone shortly after. I think she was one of those top talents who brought more to a project than it had before.
Back onto topic, I am certain Madeline could have handled prerecorded lip-synch in ALLL as could have Brennan. Brennan was so good in ALLL, Murder By Death and Private Benjamin, so glad she survived that horrible car accident. She is someone I would definitely like to see interviewed today.

 

[Matt Hough]

Kahn had no trouble with lip synching in Blazing Saddles either.

 

[Richard Kaufman]

I also saw At Long Last Love at Radio City Music Hall. Back then, no matter what movie you went to see during the daytime, it was always pretty much empty in place. I enjoy the movie even though it's genuinely bad in so many ways, but I've never seen anything but the original theatrical cut. I'd definitely buy a blu or even a DVD of it. I would hope they would at least put in all the footage from the different versions, unlike Lucky Lady, which is missing both the first and second shot endings, and has only the final theatrical release ending (which stinks--in fact the whole movie reeks to high heaven). The best thing about it is the beautiful poster art by Amsel. Whoever was helping Burt Reynolds pick his scripts made a real mess of a promising career. Two great films: Deliverance and Semi-Tough. Could have been a lot more.

 

[NY2LA]

Heres one no one has mentioned: A Matter Of Time. I saw it at Radio City. Practically had the place to myself.

 

[Moviegrrl]

Love this thread. Here's a link to an incredible series on ALLL worth checking out:
http://thepassionatemoviegoer.blogspot.com/search?q=unwanted+child%2F

 

[NY2LA]

21 songs! I want it ALLL!

 

[ajabrams]

Heres one no one has mentioned: A Matter Of Time. I saw it at Radio City. Practically had the place to myself.

How about THE LITTLE PRINCE -- another empty-house viewing for me at Radio City.

 

[NY2LA]

How about THE LITTLE PRINCE -- another empty-house viewing for me at Radio City.

I saw The Little Prince in le petit cinema (local 300 seat mini) but the entertainment value is about ten times (and runtime probably half) what A Matter of Time was, even after it was cut down to fit the hall. And yes I'd love to see Gene Wilder as a singing and dancing fox in HiDef. Anybody know what became of Steven Warner?

 

[Moviegrrl]

"The Little Prince" at Radio City? I was there, too!

 

[Moviegrrl]

ajabrams: Wilder played a fox in the film - hence the orange suite (to match his hair).