! At Fox Studios with the Execs! Post Your Fox Questions Here and We Will Ask Away (1 Viewer)

[atfree]

Interesting discussion in this thread which I think confirms where the market is going. Sales of disc based media is declining fast as streaming takes over. A year or two back I thought we had perhaps 5 years to collect the TV/films we want on blu-ray. I am far more pessimistic now after the comments from Fox. Some catalogue titles (with the minimum of money spent) will be passed to other distributors but most will only be available for streaming. This takes the industry back to the pre VHS days when you had to pay to watch a film each time and couldn't record from television. 4K discs will be very niche and perhaps in 10-15 years nothing will be distributed on disc.


I will give it another year and then move on from lamenting what hasn't been released to being very grateful for those titles which are. In the meantime a multi-region capability is essential.

The multi-region point is well taken, although I have a question which may Ron or another well-connected member can answer:


Why is it that many catalog releases, especially pre-1970 "deep" catalog titles seem to get released on BD in other markets (Europe, Asia) well before they are ever released in the US (if indeed they are ever released in the US)? The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance is a good example....Warners/Paramount released this title (with the same transfer and cover art) in many European markets in 2012 and in the UK in 2013 (I bought it then)....whereas it was only released this week in the US. Are other markets buying more physical media than the US?

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Discs? Forget discs. You should be collecting 35mm prints, otherwise you're contributing to the death of film.

 

[atfree]

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Another question: How does their presentation above ("Deep Catalog Objectives: Provide Consumers with ability to own any of of films") skew with Fox's obvious desire to not release many deep catalog titles on physical media? Own digital copies?

 

[skylark68]

Thank you for the Q&A, that was very informative.


I basically don't watch modern television so none of the television on disc discussion really affects me. However, I am interested in what appears to be the loss or lack of releases of pre '70 catalog titles on either disc OR streaming. I am a Prime member as well as a Netflix streaming member and catalog titles have steadily decreased in the past few years. I actually ended up joining Classicflix a few days ago just so I can have access to a lot of these old titles, and I prefer disc to streaming anyways. I support Twilight Time releases when they interest me, as well as certain Criterion titles. I've bought Kino Lorber and Olive films quite frequently as well. In my opinion, the big studios should just do what they need to do to make the quality of these old films acceptable and allow these boutique firms to sell the discs. If we are becoming that much of a minority, it makes no sense to carry these films in big discount stores ala Walmart or Target and should just be sold online to the community that wants them and buys them. I like Twilight Time's business model. I don't mind paying $30 or so for a great old film on physical media. I just wish they'd release more films from the '50s and '60s...

 

[David_B_K]

For TV shows, I too am "part of the problem". My wife and I watch a ton to TV (all the NCIS', along with several other shows). But we either watch them during their regular time slot or DVR them for later viewing. But, if we want to revisit them later, it's always either Netflix or Amazon Video. In my 700+ BD and DVD collection, I have exactly 2 boxsets of TV series....the first two seasons of Wild, Wild West and the only season of Search. TV to me is much less likely to be revisited on a regular basis, especially when it comes to re-watching an entire season in order, although I'll catch re-runs on cable when I'm just looking for something to kill time. On the other hand films are something I watch over and over again and love to have in a physical media format.

I guess I am also "part of the problem" for the reasons you list. I have the first 7 seasons of NCIS on DVD. My wife and I started watching the show around the 4th season, so we bought seasons on DVD to catch up. Even though I have 7 seasons on DVD, my wife would rather watch reruns of it on USA (which they should rename the NCIS network, IMO). I don't plan on buying any more seasons of NCIS because I think the show jumped the shark a few seasons back.


The other shows I have on DVD are mostly really old stuff, like Combat!, UNCLE, Father Knows Best, M Squad, 87th Precinct, etc. I have a few on Blu. Firefly, Big Bang Theory, Twilight Zone, Star Trek TNG and Human Target come to mind. I really don't have time to spend watching and re-watching TV shows, which I consider somewhat inferior to classic films. Between doing my chores around the house (plumbing, yard work, etc), watching Houston sports teams on TV and going to work, I don't have time to watch episodes of TV shows in addition to the ones we watch on their first run. I just watched 3 hours of Spartacus in its beautiful new Blu-ray. There's only so much time in a day.


Also, one may be passionate about something that someone else totally eschews. For example, I don't know how anybody can disagree with me that Frank Sinatra is the greatest singer of all time, but they do. I can't believe The Simpsons has been on for 24(!) years. On top of that, I can't imagine someone wanting all 24 seasons of the show on Blu-ray or DVD. I watched the show from when Tracy Ullman used to show little snippets on her show through the first 5 or so seasons. I liked it okay, but not enough to continue watching it and certainly not enough to buy it on disc. Just goes to show that the cliche of "one man's trash..." is very true. (Even more unbelievable to me is the release on disc of shows like Survivor. I don't get it).


Also, while I get that physical media is declining, I didn't connect Fox's abandonment of TV on disc with abandoning film on disc, not just yet. I do my part to buy the type of release that I would like to see continue. I remember when I bought the Sinatra Blu-ray set at Costco. I wasn't going to buy it, because I'd read that the two older films in the set were poor masters, and I already had Ocean's 11. But I stood there thinking "who does Costco bring this merchandise into the store for? If, I, the ultimate Sinatra fan don't buy this, who will? If I don't buy this, why should I expect them to bring in anything else that is right up my alley?" So, I bought it. I also buy occasional Criterion titles there as well. Last week at Costco, I bought several of Lawrence Rees' WW2 documentaries for the same reason.

 

[TravisR]

I can't believe The Simpsons has been on for 24(!) years.

Longer. Season 27 just started.

 

[Mike Frezon]

I don't know about other people on here, but I'm somewhat of a cheapskate when it comes to dvd/bluray.


(I don't know how many other people on here are willing to admit this outright).

Heck, there's an entire sub-forum here devoted to software (and hardware) bargains and deals--even including a weekly update of where to get new releases at the best prices from the major disc retailers in the U.S.


There are "smart shoppers" in every walk of life.

 

[Ed Lachmann]

Another question: How does their presentation above ("Deep Catalog Objectives: Provide Consumers with ability to own any of of films") skew with Fox's obvious desire to not release many deep catalog titles on physical media? Own digital copies?

I'm just hoping and praying that the move Amazon Video made recently in including a BD-R recorder (Panasonic DMR-BCT750EG) as an approved device for movie download "buyers" might translate to this Fox 100 situation. After all, with HD versions of films like Boy on a Dolphin, Captain From Castile, The Sun Also Rises and Come To The Stable being offered, my dream would be to "own" these and many more listed in that 100. A bare bones disc and having to create my own art work is fine with me. This is the future for classic film lovers and I've got to learn to embrace it, but I'm a collector and I require physical media and not some fragile hard drive. I guess those poor out of work studio artists and disc replicators can always start driving for Uber.

 

[atfree]

Apparently, the last remaining purchasers of pre-1970 catalog titles on physical media:

I guess that's me on the left, head down, mumbling curses at these young whippersnappers and their new-fangled streaming services.

 

[Jesse Skeen]

I'm a firm believer in voting with my dollars, and with the current state of physical media I try to buy as much as I can afford to show the studios that I want it to continue to be available. I WON'T however buy the next season of a series on regular DVD after buying the previous ones on Blu-Ray- that's an entire lost sale there because I won't support a step down in quality. Streaming has its place for rentals, but I will NEVER switch to buying material that way. If it becomes the only way to buy a movie, I'll stop collecting at that point- it's not like I don't have enough movies at this point anyways.

 

[Tony Bensley]

If the shift from physical media to downloads must happen, my wish is that the downloads at least be in extensions that are easily compatible with all, or at least most newer devices. In my opinion, keeping playback of digital media proprietary will be an even bigger nuisance if/when there is no longer a common physical playback option available!


Just offering my 2 cents, for what it's worth!


CHEERS!


Tony "If the physical media formats must die, then at least make digital download playback less proprietary, and more hassle free" B

 

[McCrutchy]

I never realized that my ultimate goal as a home theatre enthusiast was to "buy discs". I've been laboring under the mistaken impression that my aim was to entertain myself, whether that involved DVDs, Blu-rays, streaming or digital download.

Come now, Persianimmortal, you know better than to try this on. It isn't about "buying discs" at all. It's about having access to high-quality versions of films and television programs we love whenever we want them, so that we can indeed entertain ourselves. Blu-ray Discs offer that, and they are nothing more than a means to an end, the same way DVD was. Streaming (and to some extent digital downloading) offers the illusion of access, and nothing more.


What's truly bothersome is the way that some people here seem to just sheepishly accept streaming and downloading, without considering that perhaps even their own single purchases of physical media might help to keep it alive. We are at the point, surely, where if you enjoy a film or TV show, and it is released on Blu-ray, you should be purchasing that Blu-ray, and asking for more Blu-rays, instead of just utilizing the services that are killing off high-quality home media for movies and television.

The multi-region point is well taken, although I have a question which may Ron or another well-connected member can answer:


Why is it that many catalog releases, especially pre-1970 "deep" catalog titles seem to get released on BD in other markets (Europe, Asia) well before they are ever released in the US (if indeed they are ever released in the US)? The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance is a good example....Warners/Paramount released this title (with the same transfer and cover art) in many European markets in 2012 and in the UK in 2013 (I bought it then)....whereas it was only released this week in the US. Are other markets buying more physical media than the US?

As someone who is a fan of foreign and independent cinema, I am often forced to import, and so I do a lot of browsing internationally, looking for Blu-ray editions which are English-friendly. Happily, with patience, there is usually a release that comes along somewhere, though this happens far less with television and with the catalogs of the major Hollywood studios.


Most of the markets outside the US are either much smaller, or focused on their own domestic content. To that end, it seems that while digital is popular enough, there is a less voracious appetite for new ways to consume media. In the United States, there are dozens of streaming and digital services, but only the bigger ones go international, and only a few of those are in every major market. For example, Netflix just moved into Japan last month, and that is its first attempt to expand into Asia. I also read that, to my surprise, Netflix is launching for only the first time in Italy, Spain and Portugal next week, after having debuted in French and German-speaking Europe only last Autumn. The United States is still the largest market for them.


Asia in particular is totally fascinating, because they have the countries with the fastest consumer internet speeds in the world. They also have domestic streaming and downloading services, yet the home media market is so diverse, that the Japanese are able to rent every new release Blu-ray or DVD, and Hong Kong is still able to release new Asian titles on VCD (Video CD, a vastly outdated 90s format that never caught on anywhere else but Asia), and Korea releases Hollywood-produced Blu-ray Discs in limited edition runs with fancy slipcovers and packaging.

I'm a firm believer in voting with my dollars, and with the current state of physical media I try to buy as much as I can afford to show the studios that I want it to continue to be available. I WON'T however buy the next season of a series on regular DVD after buying the previous ones on Blu-Ray- that's an entire lost sale there because I won't support a step down in quality. Streaming has its place for rentals, but I will NEVER switch to buying material that way. If it becomes the only way to buy a movie, I'll stop collecting at that point- it's not like I don't have enough movies at this point anyways.

I feel exactly the same way, Jesse. I have a lot of patience, and if I begin watching something in Blu-ray quality, then I'm happy to wait until more of it is released in Blu-ray quality or better. I'm sure some will confuse this with format loyalty, and that isn't what it is. I do have a loyalty to physical media in general, but beyond that, all I demand is that I not have to accept a lower-quality version of something in the future, when that's simply unnecessary.


And because dropping quality releases is unnecessary, I am perfectly happy to "drop" a TV show that goes DVD-only, until it goes back to Blu-ray, and I am perfectly happy to wait for the films I want to see to come to Blu-ray (anywhere in the world), or see them in the theater, or otherwise, simply not see them at all. I haven't invested decades of my life and (by this point) hundreds of thousands of dollars collecting and enjoying home video, to suddenly be handcuffed to a computer file or a web site, that cannot give me what an optical disc can, to enjoy films or television. Believe me, my library is very big already, and while I'd be devastated to have to abandon home video for future releases, I will do it, if the studios abandon high-quality physical releases.


Which is why I was so pleased to see Fox announce The Omen for UHD/BD combo next year. Hopefully, the Fox UHD initiative extends to more 4K masters of 35mm films, as I would think there could be some scenario where scanning available assets to make UHD upgrade titles is cheaper than producing and finishing new films in 4K or higher and then doing the same thing.

 

[Matt Hough]

I will agree that NCIS has had some off years fairly recently, but last season was not one of them. Coincidentally, it was the first season of NCIS released on Blu-Ray!

 

[Worth]

Which is why I was so pleased to see Fox announce The Omen for UHD/BD combo next year. Hopefully, the Fox UHD initiative extends to more 4K masters of 35mm films, as I would think there could be some scenario where scanning available assets to make UHD upgrade titles is cheaper than producing and finishing new films in 4K or higher and then doing the same thing.

When did Fox announce it was releasing "The Omen" on UHD? I haven't heard anything about that.

 

[Dr Griffin]

When did Fox announce it was releasing "The Omen" on UHD? I haven't heard anything about that.

It was first mentioned in post #12 of this thread.

 

[Finn]

It was first mentioned in post #12 of this thread.

not accurate

 

[Robert Crawford]

not accurate

So what is accurate then?

In the works: The Bowery. Also: The Omen and Independence Day (4k UHD). The Gunfighter, A Farewell To Arms, Peyton Place

 

[Finn]

We are working on a 4K of Omen, but it would be a blu-ray release --- off of a 4K master

 

[McCrutchy]

We are working on a 4K of Omen, but it would be a blu-ray release --- off of a 4K master

Okay, so what you are saying is, that 2016 release would be Blu-ray-only, with no UHD BD included?

If that's true, then it's a shame, as of the titles announced so far, this was the one I was most interested in, and it would be titles of this vintage and older that would be the catalyst for me to adopt UHD sooner, rather than later.

 

[Keith Cobby]

It seems to me that UHD disc releases will be for current and very recent films plus a few older catalogue titles (the usual suspects LOA, WOZ etc) and that other titles will be available for streaming only in 4K.