Assuming the Outlaw 950 (1 Viewer)

[Steve_D]

can live up to its hype, what would you pay for a used but mint B&K Ref 20 pre-amp today?
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[Andrew Pratt]

I think that depends a lot on where you plan on selling it. Outlaw has a great reputation in the online community but I'd be willing to bet that there's still a ton of people that don't know them enough to give them the time of day and so you might still get a good return on a proven product from a good name brand. Places like Ebay should bring a decent return if marketed right
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[Steve_D]

I'm in the position of buyer...and was thinking at $600 it would be a good deal...above that I'd rather wait for the Outlaw. Yes, I know they are typically asking for ~$1K mint used...but there is a bunch of them on the market right now so I'm betting prices will come down in light of the new formats, better DACS, and newer alternatives coming to market.
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[Edited last by Steve_D on July 14, 2001 at 01:04 AM]

 

[JohanK]

I doubt you'll find a Ref 20 for $600...I'm thinking around $900 to $1000...but ya never know.
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[Steve_D]

Most of them on the market are in the $900-1000 range and their are several right now...which I feel is too much...I'd rather wait for the Outlaw.
Which is why I asked. I know the market determines price....I just don't feel its worth that much considering the Outlaw alternative.
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[JohanK]

For the Ref 20, I kinda agree about the price but I can see why they are selling for around $1K since they sold for over $2K.
However, I'm not convinced that the Outlaw will be 'the' performance/value product that many think it will be. I hope I'm wrong.
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[Samuel Des]

However, I'm not convinced that the Outlaw will be 'the' performance/value product that many think it will be. I hope I'm wrong.

What were the other pieces you were thinking of? Just curious. I may end up looking into a new pre. down the line anyway.
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SAM

 

[Steve_D]

I'd like to know also. Maybe the Rotel 976 at $1100? Or a used B&K Ref 20, or used Acurus Act 3v2? The Adcom 740/750/760 in this range has had nothing but problems from what I can see here and audioreview, as well as the Parasound 1800 with some problems.
There is really a limited selection of competent pre/pros in the ~ $1000 range. I don't know why Denon can produce a decent sounding receiver in the 3801/2 with all the latest processing but few others can figure out how to remove the amps and offer a quality/affordable pre/pro.
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[Claude M]

I agree ! I think Denon figures you'll buy the receiver and use it as a pre/pro. For them to produce just the pre/pro will cost them more than the whole receiver. They figure they won't sell as many so the price will have to be higher.
So why not take it to the next level and add a switch to the receiver which will shut the amp off (cut the dc to amp section) and allow the full force of the power supply to feed the pre/pro?

 

[Craig Robertson]

quote: So why not take it to the next level and add a switch to the receiver which will shut the amp off (cut the dc to amp section) and allow the full force of the power supply to feed the pre/pro?[/quote]
i seriously doubt that the unused amps will deprive the low current draw pre/pro section of the current it needs. if the power supply will power the pre/pro section with the amps fully driven, why would you assume that it couldn't when there is very little current drawn by the amps?
[Edited last by Craig Robertson on July 15, 2001 at 06:59 PM]

 

[Steve_D]

OK lets add another one to the list of possibilities, how about the SONY TA-E9000ES/N with the 2.01 upgrade?
BTW, I wonder what would happen if I physically cut the power to the amps inside my Denon LOL...
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[JohanK]

I had no particular unit in mind when I made the above statement. I was merely stating my reservations about Outlaw as a company in terms of hi-fi equipment. I would like to see the insides of the preamp, some specs/schematics and listen to it before making a final determination.
Another preamp that I'm waiting for is the upcoming Rotel 1066 (MSRP=1500) which has features similar to the Outlaw (not sure about adjustable crossovers though) such as DPL2, DTS-ES, etc. Parasound's replacement for the 1800 is going to be priced over 2K so it's out of my league as is Sony's rumored new preamp which may be around 3K. I had hoped that the new Adcom 830 had DPL2 but it doesn't.

OK lets add another one to the list of possibilities, how about the SONY TA-E9000ES/N with the 2.01 upgrade?

This is a fine unit; wish it had analog bypass.
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[Claude M]

Craig, although not as bad as pure class A, a class AB will draw current while idle too. The Denon 3300 after removing the DC voltage to the power amp runs much cooler. It is a unit known for running hot and perhaps this tweak is more effective with this unit than with others. The main reason for going to separtes is to benefit from dedicated power supplies for each unit. Yes, the pre amp draws a relative small amount of power when compare to power amp. The power supply will keep up with it's power needs with ease at full output to speakers. But for folks which are looking for pre/pro that won't break the bank it can be seen as a bonus (having a dedicted power supply which is 1000X over kill for a pre/pro).
[Edited last by Claude M on July 16, 2001 at 09:38 AM]