Aspect Ratio Documentation (2 Viewers)

[seangood79]

It's amazing how poor memories can be. The first time I saw Rear Window was in the mid 90's at a theater, and walking out I overheard an elderly gentleman complaining that the theater showed the colorized version, it should have been black and white. When I tried to explain to him he was mistaken he wouldn't listen.

 

[FoxyMulder]

I could have sworn The Wizard of Oz was in 1.37:1 when I saw it in the theater last year.

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I think they present it within a wide frame, it's centered in the middle much like they do with blu ray, so yes it's 1.37:1 but it's not done the same way they originally did it back in the thirties and forties, someone else can tell you more but digital projectors have a lot of flexibility, i'm sure that would have been an all digital version and not a cinema print.

 

[Dr Griffin]

Plus, The Wizard of Oz was composed for 1.37:1. A Hard Days Night was composed for 1.75:1. I saw a restored print of Rashomon and it was 1.37:1, but I didn't expect it to be widescreen.

 

[seangood79]

I could have sworn The Wizard of Oz was in 1.37:1 when I saw it in the theater last year.

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Was it digital? The Wizard of Oz DCPs are pillar boxed.
If you saw it on film, chances are it was the 1999 rerelease, which had the 1.37 image reduced so the average theater could play it with a 1.85 lens. The size of the picture was not much different from 16mm.
That same year WB rereleased Gone with the Wind pillar boxed too, but it was anamorphic so theaters used their scope lenses, which meant more empty space on the screen, but utilized the entire frame.
But the focus of this thread is the transition period in the 50's, if you watched any of these movies in 1954, chances are it would have been widescreen.

 

[Vahan_Nisanain]

Plus, The Wizard of Oz was composed for 1.37:1. A Hard Days Night was composed for 1.75:1. I saw a restored print of Rashomon and it was 1.37:1, but I didn't expect it to be widescreen.

Naturally you wouldn't, because it was made in 1950, and the Japanese went widescreen well after us Americans and the British did (not sure exactly when).

 

[haineshisway]

Even though it's not been stated anywhere, including amazon Germany's own specs, there are apparently two versions of The Glenn Miller Story on the Blu-ray - the original theatrical release in full frame and the 80s reissue version, which is apparently longer and in 16x9 (the two people "reviewing" the disc on amazon don't actually state the ratio, just that it's widescreen - sorry, one does say 1.85). I'll wait to see some more information before actually investing in it and the unknown is whether Koch found the English-language track for the longer widescreen version (there is a thread here somewhere where he says he's looking for it - that was back in 2012).

 

[Bob Furmanek]

Off topic but if you're in the New York area:

I'll be introducing MAN IN THE DARK in 3-D at the Museum of Modern Art on Friday, August 1 at 4:30. If you're at the show, please introduce yourself and say hello. I'd like to meet you.

I'll be bringing a sample of an original 1953 sepia-toned print!

http://www.moma.org/visit/calendar/film_screenings/21461

 

[Jari K]

"Even though it's not been stated anywhere"Except that I just said it a couple of posts earlier. And I posted a link to the other thread.

 

[ScottHM]

Was it digital? The Wizard of Oz DCPs are pillar boxed.

It was in 3-D, and pillar boxed or not theaters can obviously still show non-widescreen films in the proper ratio.

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[ahollis]

It was in 3-D, and pillar boxed or not theaters can obviously still show non-widescreen films in the proper ratio. ---------------

Yes you are correct now that the films are released in digital format. Many of the classic series that Theatres show use either a DCP, Blu-ray or DVD, in doing that the films in 1.37:1 are pillar boxed without the use of masking. So to me there is a loss in the presentation.

 

[moviebuff75]

RAH told me in the "Citizen Kane" thread that the theater would have cropped more most likely than the blu-ray, but the blu-ray is missing a bit off of the right side...so I'm not understanding that projection crops very little of AR films.

 

[Bob Furmanek]

Was it digital? The Wizard of Oz DCPs are pillar boxed.
If you saw it on film, chances are it was the 1999 rerelease, which had the 1.37 image reduced so the average theater could play it with a 1.85 lens. The size of the picture was not much different from 16mm.

You make an excellent point, Sean.

The pillar-boxed re-issue of THE WIZARD OF OZ - with a 1.37:1 image surrounded on all four sides with black - gives a good indication of just how small a standard ratio image would have looked had it been presented on a new widescreen during the period of transition in 1953/54.

After installing all the new equipment, there's no reason any theater would have continued to present the features with a tiny image. The customers would have lined up for refunds!

For that reason, some theaters would run the newsreel or trailers in 1.37:1 with a small image and then transition to widescreen for the feature. It was showmanship and served to heighten the dramatic impact of the new widescreen.

As an example, from the Paramount pressbook for HELL'S ISLAND:

 

[Bob Furmanek]

RAH told me in the "Citizen Kane" thread that the theater would have cropped more most likely than the blu-ray, but the blu-ray is missing a bit off of the right side...so I'm not understanding that projection crops very little of AR films.

It all depends on the rake of the projectors and keystone of the image. That would certainly vary in each theater. The important ones were extremely careful to project as much of the recommended image as possible.

 

[haineshisway]

"Even though it's not been stated anywhere"

Except that I just said it a couple of posts earlier. And I posted a link to the other thread.

Here is what you posted:

"I believe the German BD has two versions:
- Shorter, 4:3, also English audio.
- Longer, 1.78:1, no English audio

I can't confirm this, though."

Do you see a link in your post of any kind? I don't. Hmmm. I also see the words "I can't confirm this, though." I was stating that I can confirm it and that it is not stated anywhere in any press release I've seen or on amazon Germany's page, but once I found the two German "reviews" that actually DID confirm it I posted that information. Why you feel it necessary to play this game is probably known to you but it's sure not known to me. But have fun if you like. I'm not sure we know the answer as to whether the longer version is only German language, at least I have not been able to ascertain that - I only mentioned the post from Michael Koch made here two years ago that they were looking for the English track for the longer version, you know, in the thread you think you linked to but didn't.

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[Mark-P]

Yes, I believe it is zoomed in a bit. I tried cropping it to 2:1 and it was too tight.

Bob, which DVD did you try? The 2007 reissue DVD was a bit less zoomed than the first 2003 DVD:

2003:

2007:

 

[haineshisway]

Had no idea there was an even later DVD. Hmmm.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Had no idea there was an even later DVD. Hmmm.

Yes, there was James Stewart Screen Legends Collection that came out on 06-12-07. I have both DVDs.

 

[Mark-P]

Had no idea there was an even later DVD. Hmmm.

Yep. The reissue is quite an improvement. I made those two captures quite a few years back when I first got the Screen Legends collection, but then I sold the original DVD so I can't make any more comparisons. And I have no idea which version is being used on the current single DVD that is now being sold on Amazon.

 

[Jari K]

"Yes, there was James Stewart Screen Legends Collection that came out on 06-12-07."Damn, I also have this. Totally forgot.

 

[LeoA]

I sent Koch a recording off TCM of the full Glenn Miller Story to extract those few minutes of English language audio from those scenes someone around here has linked to on YouTube in an earlier thread.

Wasn't clear if he ever received it though (Last word I had was that it hadn't arrived about a week after I mailed it), but he sent me the Blu-Ray which arrived yesterday so hopefully that's a good sign that it arrived and was of some use.

Hopefully it's on there, but my UK PS3 that I use to play some UK PS2 games and European Blu-Ray's and DVD's recently died so I haven't been able to check it out.