Arrrrgh...Movie Piracy: A Big Deal? (1 Viewer)

[JamieD]

I tend to say, rather loudly,
"Oh wow, I can download movies! I didn't know that.. why the hell am I paying for the ticket!.. Idiots!"

But I don't shout, someone might think I'm serious.

 

[JohnAP]

It's not about rationalizing why people steal movies. I wouldn't try to argue that stealing is fine. The thing is that with heaps of commercials for products increasingly tacked on to the beggining of movies, these anti-piracy ads are one more thing we have to sit through before the start of the movie we just PAID nine or ten bucks to see. It's not going to ruin my entire movie going experience, but I resent being shown all these commercials while I wait 20 minutes after the start time for the movie to start for real. Especially when its a commercial telling me not to steal a movie I obviously already paid to see. Buy ad time on tv.

 

[Phil Florian]

Heard a story on NPR today that reminded me of this discussion, as well. The story noted that of 11 movies currently shooting out of Hollywood companies, 7 of them are out of country. This means that the painter or stunt guy in those anti-piracy ads is doing that ad to supplement his lack of income because all the jobs are in Romania or Canada. And they think internet piracy is doing their jobs in?

Humph.

Phil

 

[Jason Walstrom]

What DOT? I need to look out for this at my next movie and have it distract the hell out of me. Seriously though, they should have ad's about people who bring their own food and candy into theaters are putting popcorn farmers and willy wonka and his oompa loompa's out of business.

 

[ThomasC]

"We're oompa loompa doopity screwed."

 

[David Fisher]

A greater number of movies are being made in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and Mexico because it is much cheaper. In some cases, the studio doesn't have to provide benefits to the workers in those countries, or they can pay them much cheaper.

Now that'd be an interesting commercial to watch.

Piracy won't be going away, and yet, it won't hurt the industry. Look at pornography, the single most bootlegged industry on the internet. Even with the proliferation of bootlegs, the industry is turning record profits. (I don't like porno, but I find some of the business aspects very interesting.)

I don't watch pirated movies, because the quality is so low. However, many of my friends do and I have looked at some of the mIRC lists of movies available.

Pirated movies come in two main flavors:
1- Screener bootleg
2- Filmed directly from the movie screen

Of course, the screener copies are the best quality. But I don't understand why the industry doesn't use DOTS (or whatever) to track every individual screener that is released. I hate to break the obvious news here, but these leaks are coming from within the film industry, not the youthful computer crowd.

If you have ever seen a bootleg filmed off of a movie screen, you'll know that the quality is just abysmal. The sound quality is horrid, and sides of the screen are occasionall missing. What's even more interesting is the fact that some of these seem to have been made at smaller screening rooms, not at the large multiplexes.

I hate to point out the obvious, but the majority of the bootlegs originate from within the film industry. That's why so many people find these commercials humorous (or possibly offensive). The ratio of film watchers to film downloaders is very low, probably lower than the ratio of shoppers to shoplifters. Theft occurs in every sector of industry, but the movie and music companies are the only ones who feel the need to shame their entire audience.

Why would I consider downloading a movie? Because Hollywood rapes me at every step of the way. If I pay a theater $30+ for a movie date, I just want to see the movie at its advertised time. OK? I shouldn't have to put up with rude clerks at the ticket booth AND concession area. I shouldn't have to sit through three minutes of commercials when I just paid $15 for two hours of commercial free entertainment. And yet, I have to, and as a result, my 7:00 movie date MIGHT actually begin around 7:20. And then, I have to sit and look at two hours of product placements. At this point, it seems like Hollywood should be paying me to sit through the entire ordeal. That's why average Americans don't care about hearing Hollywood cry "Foul", because movie fans have been crying "Foul" for ten (or more) years and Hollywood hasn't given two craps.

Hollywood, I would actually pay more money to go to a theater that begins a movie at its advertised time and doesn't feature two Coke commercials in a row. If you'll at least try to respect my time and money, maybe I'll try to respect yours.

 

[Krystian C]

Very well said David. There is no way I can say it better, so I will just sit back and quitely observe again.

 

[John_Berger]

Dave, your post is one of those reasons why I wish there was an applause smiley.

 

[ThomasC]

On behalf of John and myself...

 

[Robert Anthony]

Word.

 

[Brian Thibodeau]

Excellent post, David, but I only have to disagree on one point, and this may only be because I live in a different country:



This may be true in your neck of the woods, and certainly true if the movie is still fresh in movie theatres, but up here in Canada, you can walk into any big-city Asian mall and you'll find bootlegs that are virtually indistinguishable from the legitimate DVD street copies. It’s phenomenal what pirates get away with these days, and it begs the question of just WHAT kind of piracy Hollywood really fears: crummy online downloads or a DVD that’s virtually indistinguishable from the original. Maybe they don’t want you to know just how far the competition has come.

And these aren’t just the usual copies of Hong Kong and Asian films that Joe Blockbuster doesn’t really care about because such films largely find their audience within the “closed” Chinese community that frequents the mall. No, these are full-blown clones of Asian, European and AMERICAN discs, replete with anamorphic widescreen, DTS and DD 5.1, assorted audio and sub tracks, bonus features, bonus discs (sometimes). The biggest difference near as I can tell is that you don’t always get an amaray case, BUT they actually take the time to make not only a sleeve insert FOR an amaray case, but they package it and the disc(s) in a cardboard box (with gatefold cover) in which you can put your own amaray case. The pirates in some circles seem to care just as much about presentation as Hollywood does, and they know they can’t get away with gouging you for $25 a pop.

(Important note: I’m not trying to advocate bootlegging or advertise its products, but I really think many posters on internet forums are unaware of just how far the process has grown over the last couple years. These are pros, not some guy burning DVD-R's on his home computer)

Within days of their official DVD releases, I’ve seen copies of Tomb Raider 2, Bad Boys 2, T3, Charlies Angels 2, Two Towers, Finding Nemo on the shelves, as well as a growing supply of catalogue titles like Speed, Silence of the Lambs, T2 and literally dozens of others. From what I can tell, these are most definitely NOT shot off theatre screens. They could, I suppose, be taken from screeners as I’m not familiar with DVD screener policy as I got out of the reviewing game back when “spoiled” VHS screeners were the norm and, in my opinion then, hardly worth copying because of that irritating scroll (“this cassette is the property of Fox video blah de blah). Does anyone know if DVD screners are spoiled in this way?

Not that it would matter much if they were. Whoever’s doing the copying these days, and I suspect you have to go deep into Asia to find them, they’re doing it from the legitimate releases, perhaps from various regions (like a HK edition of T3 or some such) but without the region coding or macrovision. I generally stil prefer to purchase my movies new or, at best, previously viewed from the local video barns at a much more reasonable price, but each time I visit the big city, my resistance weakens.

Like others in this thread, I find the whole piracy thing to be an arguably tolerable (and certainly financially appealing) gray zone that won’t likely ever go away, no matter how much film industries around the world cry. Piracy nearly killed the Hong Kong film industry, yet it still churns out product, albeit in lesser quantity and better quality than before. Hell, that film industry in particular probably NEEDS the piracy food chain at the very least to ensure it’s films are actually SEEN by the large Chinese diaspora. Every notice how Chinese video rental stores have nothing but plain VHS tapes with plain white stickers all over the shelves, and a binder of photocopied "sleeves" to peruse? It's easy to understand the mindset.

IF the new hi-tech bootlegs were really limited to screener dupes and grindhouse grabs, I think you’d probably see fewer of these anti-piracy boo-hoo spots. Hollywood is probably well aware that pirates in some communities are beating them at their own quality control game, defeating their protections, pre-releasing titles thanks to ealier releases in other regions, and offering customers as close an approximation of the real thing as one could reasonably expect, and that within time, more and more unsuspecting viewers will stumble onto that fact. They know that if TOO many people get hip, they might really feel the pinch and maybe they’d stop trying to bullshit us into beleiving that they really HAVE to charge us as much as $13 CDN a person to sit in movie theatres and suffer all the disctractions noted above, THEN months later, pay frequently ridiculous amounts of money for their little pieces of plastic.

Just my two cents...

 

[Erich_S]

Here's a crazy idea I had while reading this thread...I've read the suggestion before that when you go to the theater and pay to watch a movie, they give you the option to buy your own copy of the movie right there in the theater, or even just give it to you.

Well, What if they sold, for very cheap (~$2), or gave away an "internet-quality" version of the film on a VCD or something? I'm talking 320X240 resolution, mono or stereo sound. No extra features, maybe even 'dumbing down' some of the special effects. But, it would be a basic, clean version of the film. they could just print the ticket right on a printable mini-DVD (less little scraps of paper to go through the wash!)

Sure, some people would run home, rip the CD, and share it on kazaa, but it's not like the movies aren't there already. Heck, the studios could put another free version on their web page when the movie comes out - maybe 160X120 resolution, mono---beat kazaa at it's own game; faster download, about equal quality. throw a couple trailers on the web version and just think of it as advertising costs.

Personally, I think it might work...I'd probably check out a couple whole movies when they first started, but i don't think i could handle sitting and watching more than a couple movies in squint-o-vision on the computer. after that, i might watch a few minutes of a movie to see if it's worth it to go to the theater, or go rent or buy on DVD.

However, there is the downside that if it were a non-blockbuster-type movie, like a lighthearted romantic comedy or an indy film, i might be content with the free VCD instead of renting/buying a DVD later on...maybe this is only a good idea for the big blockbuster extravaganza event movies (which jibes with what was said earlier about the movies that typically are available for download).

Erich

 

[David Fisher]

Thanks for the comments, everybody.

Erich,

Mark Cuban, owner of the Dallas Mavericks, has spoken about getting into the movie industry, and he has made similar suggestions about immediate video access to new movies. I believe he said something like, "If I can't give somebody a reason to pay $$$ to see a movie on the big screen, then there's something wrong with the business."

Access to new movies would certainly cut down on a lot of the bootlegging. Hollywood seems to have forgetten the power of a good theater experience. If I could go out and buy a high quality copy of Kill Bill Vol.2, I would do it. And you know what? I would still pay my $8 to go see it on the big screen, with the big sound system. Look at Trilogy Tuesday where fans lined up around city blocks to see DVDs on the big screen.

Hollywood executives... Wake Up. You have more than just a product. You have an experience that only a few people in America can match in their own homes, and those home theater nuts still go out to the movies.


Brian,

Good points about the street vendors who have very high quality DVD bootlegs. I don't know much about that segment of the bootleg market, but the level of quality certainly begs some questions...

If these aren't being filmed off of a screen, what could the source be? Hmmm... Where would bootleggers be finding ultra-high video AND audio source files for today's top movies? Does the New Release Movie Fairy visit their homes? Are they bringing ultra-expensive, ultra-sophisticated video and sound equipment to the theaters?

I hate to say it, but there really is only a couple sources for these high quality source files. The film makers and film distributors. Sure, they might get leaked from the foreign divisions of these companies, but these source files are either coming from within the company's employee roster OR there is one amazing team of cat burglars breaking into several different buildings around the world to steal the files.

I used to work for a company that does standardized testing for school students. Our documents carried a high security rating, but the end product was eventually used in the schools across the state. If any of our secure test material was leaked or filtered through the internet, the employees would be held accountable. Not the students, not the parents, not the teachers.

The very opposite is happening in the movie industry. I can understand if one hacker or burglar could steal a copy of Good Will Hunting. But that means Miramax needs to tighten its security and distribution process if high quality versions of Shakespeare in Love, Kill Bill, Chicago, and Gangs of New York are leaked.

I hate to say it, but this is a little similar to the music industry and the leaks of new Eminem or Korn songs before the CD is released. This isn't a matter of somebody walking in off the street with a tape recorder and stealing the new music at night. It's a security issue with studio employees who copy a song to a disc and take it home and seed a torrent (share the file). Yeah, it sucks that a hundred thousand kids have the new song, but it is ultimately a security issue with an engineer, technician, personal assistant, music journalists, or even the custodial staff.



If there are other forms of acquiring high quality source files for bootlegs, I'd sure like to know what they are. I'm not an expert here, but there's more to this than the industry's shameless blame game.

 

[Lew Crippen]

Cuban recently acquired the Landmark theaters, so he is already in the retail end. He also owns HDNet and HDNet Movies, so he is sort of in the retail/distribution end as well. And according to some reports he has cut a deal with Microsoft to begin putting their software into his theaters for HD projection purposes.

Now if could just get a center for the Mavs …

 

[Brian Thibodeau]

David,

Good points.

I'm absolutely certain these high-tech rips are direct copies of existing source materials, if not some kind of master DVD, since the menus are fully functional, etc.. The source files - not to mention the cover art!! - must be getting swiped or leaked out at some point in the food chain. It's really a shame when a movie studio so can't trust it's own employees that it feels the need to make us share the guilt.

I'm really quite partial to the idea of a team of cat-burglars breaking into buildings around the world. Sounds like it would make a good movie.

 

[ThomasC]

I just saw an anti-piracy ad during American Idol. I guess they got some sense knocked into them.

 

[chris winters]

another thing to consider is the only reason pirating is so crappy at the moment is becuase of technology. The writing is on the wall, and what the music companies are fighting right now, the movie companies will be fighting tomorow. In a few years, the downloads wont be crappy little mpegs, they will be full digital quality, great sound etc...probably playable on your home theater system. A downloaded movie will be indestinguishable from the final product, as an MP3 is from a CD. Were are setting the foundation, legally and morally, for what WILL be a real problem down the line. We take for granted how hard these films are to make, with crews of hundreds of people, and equipment, etc..taking over a year. The theater going experience is dreadful nowadays, with ads etc... and it is ironic that the productions move out of country forcing hollywood stuntmen/set painters out of work, but we will have to come to terms with how to deal with the information age, and copyright laws. It is a real problem, more for what is represents in the coming years then what it is right now.

 

[Brian Thibodeau]

Good point. When the on-line pirates can emulate the high quality that DVD bootleggers are putting out right now, then the real pinch will be felt.

 

[Cagri]

I haven't read all the posts in this thread, maybe it's been already mentioned, but downloading is not the only piracy used. They reproduce the sample discs and put the DVDs in the market at the same time with the theatrical release of the film, sometimes even earlier. I know of many films where on the screen it says "Property of ........ For screening purposes only" once in every several minutes. I assume the studios loan these discs to the international customers for marketing the film and these discs almost always hit the pirate market. And I guess that's where they lose most of their money rather than downloads.

 

[John Doran]

am i missing something here? going to see these movies which are such an enormous inconvenience to you and your time, is your CHOICE; if you dislike sitting through commercials so much, and hate paying such exorbitant ticket-prices....then don't go to the theater. i mean, no one's entitled to see movies of any kind, whether they're preceded by commercials or not, or whether they cost $5 or $50 - movies are discretionary, consumable products, like any other discretionary, consumable product.

by the same token, if your argument works, then it works for all similar products. for example, "stupid mercedes and porsche make me pay so much money for their cars, and it's not like the corporate officers or owners of those companies aren't stupendously rich, or anything, and the mechanics and designers are probably unionized. and besides, i really despise the inconvenience of having to deal with car salesmen, so screw it - i just steal the cars i want right from the showroom".

stealing is stealing, whether you're stealing from the rich or from the poor, all the elaborate and poignant rationalizations of thieves to the contrary notwithstanding.