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Around The World In 80 Days (1956) (1 Viewer)

Mike Frezon

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Firstly, my utmost respect to Bob-and the film maker he made of Richard H. ( I am the only private collector to own a print of his work)

I wish to correct some misinformation posted throughout this thread. I was my grandfather's apprentice on # 30 of the Todd-AO theaters in the USA ( and world)- at age 12 I was a capable moving picture machine operator.
I did installs and troubleshooting world-wide on 70mm- and still consult. I supervised installs of Cinerama both 3 strip and 70mm. My hands put the image on the screen.

There is an equal amount of misinformation for Ultra Panavision 70.

First- the Philips DP70 was purpose built for Todd-AO Corp. The Norelco AA-II came to be in 1964 - this was after the Todd-AO 10 year exclusive expired.

Second- Full coat 35 was used for early showings of Oklahoma! - the 10 track magnetic heads were not yet built. Magna Theatre Crop. had to start showings - cash flow!

Third- the Full coat mag was only used in England b/c of taxes- the reason Mike Todd had 1mm shaved off the edge to create a loophole. That missing 1 mm precluded mag striping. The run was 2 years.

Fourth- The Todd-AO specs required 30 fps, where 24 fps was standard for 35mm- this film speed gave a flicker-free image, and delivered more light. Oklahoma! was filmed in 2 versions 35 and 65 neg. Some scenes were shot twice and very few without sound (or MOS )were reduction printed to 35 ana- .

Mike Todd used 2 cameras, one at 30fps, the other at 24 fps- the scenes without sound were printed from the 30fps neg. - the easiest one to spot is the India sequence where the train is going over the bridge.

Fifth -printing anything from a CS55 print - is a reduction print.

Warner re-released 80 days in 1966 in 35 magnetic- I ran it again their logo was on the print as well as reel bands. The elements of 80 Days were stored in the basement of the Chicago Cinestage house.

The 70mm prints were contact printed - best quality, but can be hard on the negative - This was before the liquid gate printer. The quality of the Technicolor prints was superior- and never compromised.

Since the multi-plex and the platter - there are very few projectionists with the knowledge to run a 70mm roadshow print- or even an 8mm for that matter.

Unlike they who own disk players, I own 3 Norelco AA-II, and run 35 and 70 prints for invited friends.

Fox shot South Pacific at 24fps to easily make 35mm optical reduction prints- it was a giant step backward, a loss of light and image quality.

It is just too bad General Dweedle ( catch 22) can not have his way with the dummies responsible for the trashing of this negative- with that said--- Warner makes Scrooge Mc Duck a spendthrift. They refused to print HTWWW on 3 strip, until they got fund from the government. I loaned a 70mm print venue- Warner gladly took the minimum rental for licensing the print - they had destroyed all prints 35 and 70.

This is in no way any criticism of Bob's work, but a general reply to a reading of this thread.

I will have a 35mm magnetic print ,shortly for inspection and repairs. It is a standard anamorphic squeeze print. Cinestage 1.56 squeeze were used where 70mm machines were not installed-

There is a Cinestage mag print in Europe in a freezer.

When a Todd-AO show ran, the sale of popcorn was not allowed. Mike Todd wanted the product to be more than a trip to the movies.

My favorite 70mm projection lens is the ISCO T-Kiptagon - excellent depth and center to edge focus.

If a person has uncorrected stigmatism, the depth illusion is reduced or compromised.

If any of you have to project a faded print - a #2 cyan filter in front of the lens helps.

I have a 70mm Krakatoa print- stored at 45F and original 1966 print- Technicolor- it has minor dye loss, easily corrected a #2 cyan.

When Jan Kotte designed the sprocket pitch for the DP70- he allowed for acetate shrinkage- simply I have never lost a loop or had any problems with old prints on the DP70/AA-II

The industry justifies the disuse of 70mm prints, citing print damage. When The Master opened in Los Angeles, one print managed to be destroyed on day 1 - I have had platter monkeys- allow Simplex 70mm machines to scrape the oxide on the outside tracks b/c the intermittent shoe was worn to a knife edge.

One "expert" opined a mag track was only good for 3 months- yet I can think of A Sound of Music print that ran 2 years, 4 performances per day. The machines: DP70 - projectionists were IATSE -

Too a large loop on intermittent sprocket, on the Century JJ machines with polyester stock will cause the print to flutter to scrape against the machine - emulsion always faces lamp house.

The Century JJ were used for 1 reason - cheap. They were not designed for Xenon lamps- the spot on a carbon arc is contained in the plasma in the + carbon - the Xe light is a sphere- simply on some JJ -
un-shuttered light will cause a flicker on white scenes. This is the length of the blades allowing this.

The carbon arc Cinerama used with the JJ was the Jet-Arc or Vent-Arc - the negative carbon was solid and rotated- the positive carbon did not rotate- and was 10.5mm Very different from the Futura II.

In the day, the theaters were checked for equipment and a sound check was always done.
The last sound check I suffered was the result of Cinerama sending an Altec servicer who readjusted the 1000 CPS loops for output - BY EAR . What he did, was undo an earlier sound check I did with a loop and a meter - I came on for the evening show after the damage was done. The next morning Altec was back to correct this bleep-up.

All it takes is one dummy to undo SMPTE standards - as one tech observed- today 70mm is compromises- too many compromises.
Welcome to the HTF, John! :welcome:

Thanks for sharing your knowledge on this fascinating topic! :thumbsup:
 
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haineshisway

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EL CID has already been restored from a 70mm print (with a commentary) and is out on a 2 disc bluray.Stunning quality and there are 175 mins of extras.

I didn't see this post back when it was made - why don't you just do everyone a favor and point us to where we can buy this stunning quality Blu-ray of El Cid with extras of 175 minutes. Several have asked and you have responded not a whit. Why? If you have it then surely it will be easy to tell all of us El Cid lovers where they can purchase so we can be as awed as you. I'm not sure, of course, what you mean by "restored from a 70mm print - any 70mm release print of El Cid would be completely faded and restoring from a print is not really restoring, if you get my meaning.

EDIT: I think what we have here is another hit and run post - I just researched all the released Blu-rays of El Cid - a) I can find no version with a second disc that has 175 minutes of extras - one release seemingly ports over the app. 120 minutes of extras from the Miriam Collection DVD. b) EVERY version has an aspect ratio of 2:35, which means they were all taken from 35mm sources - if they, as you suggest, had "restored" this from a 70mm print, which they didn't, the ratio would not be 2:35. With all due respect, this is not the first time you've made this kind of post and then not responded when others tell you that you can't possibly be right. Again, perhaps you have a release that no one else knows about it, and if that's so, then you do need to share that information with us, because every current release of this film on Blu-ray, as others have pointed out, are taken from the same sub-quality master that was created for the Miriam Collection, and that is anything but stunning and was not taken from 70mm sources. The treatment of this film is shameful.
 
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Alan Tully

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I don't have El Cid on Blu-ray, but I do have The Fall Of The Roman Empire, they are from the Miriam HD masters which I understand were transfered from low-con prints. Whoever did it did a great job, but going from a low-con print doesn't really cut it these days, some bright daylight shots look fantastic, but low light scenes like a night interior really shows up the limitations of the source. Depending on the state of the original negatives, these could be two of the best looking films on Blu-ray. Martin Scorsese where are you, you're needed:)
 

OliverK

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I don't have El Cid on Blu-ray, but I do have The Fall Of The Roman Empire, they are from the Miriam HD masters which I understand were transfered from low-con prints. Whoever did it did a great job, but going from a low-con print doesn't really cut it these days, some bright daylight shots look fantastic, but low light scenes like a night interior really shows up the limitations of the source.

Billy you are being very kind, too kind in my opinion, probably because you like these movies so much :) Fall of the Roman Empire is but a shadow of what it should look like on Blu-ray. This movie had some of the most magnificent cinematography ever and incredible sets but you wouldn't know it from watching a picture that is plagued by some strange denoising / softening and a general lack of color fidelity and resolution.

As Dana says about El Cid they do not make them like this anymore but they surely should be able to release them on Blu-ray in decent quality.



Depending on the state of the original negatives, these could be two of the best looking films on Blu-ray. Martin Scorsese where are you, you're needed:)

Amen to that, there is little reason for El Cid and Fall of the Roman Empire not looking fantastic on Blu-ray as the negatives of all the other Bronston movies from Kind of Kings onwards seem to be in good or very good shape.
I also would think that now that the Film Foundation is done with One Eyed Jacks Mr. Scorsese may as well return to two of his favorite epics and finally get things right.
 

RolandL

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Raintree County, Fall of the Roman Empire and Hallelujah Trail, are the only MGM Camera 65/Ultra Panavision titles that have not been released on Blu-ray in the full 2.76 AR. Raintree County only has been released on VHS tape and Hallelujah Trail on DVD.
 

Randy Korstick

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Raintree County, Fall of the Roman Empire and Hallelujah Trail, are the only MGM Camera 65/Ultra Panavision titles that have not been released on Blu-ray in the full 2.76 AR. Raintree County only has been released on VHS tape and Hallelujah Trail on DVD.
Raintree County and Hallelujah Trail both had Widescreen releases on Laserdisc as well. I sold my Raintree Laser and now wish I didn't but I still have Hallelujah.
 

trajan007

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When it became clear that Raintree County wasn't going to have a Blu-ray any time soon, I bought a laser copy (very cheaply) off Ebay. I was certain that would be the catalyst for an instant Blu-ray release, but somewhere the wires got crossed and it didn't happen.
 

RolandL

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Raintree County and Hallelujah Trail both had Widescreen releases on Laserdisc as well. I sold my Raintree Laser and now wish I didn't but I still have Hallelujah.

Raintree County is shown on TCM in HD. Might even look better than the laser disc.
 

Matt Hough

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Raintree County is shown on TCM in HD. Might even look better than the laser disc.
It is? The last time I looked at a TCM broadcast, it seemed just as full of aliasing as my laserdisc does. The color did seem a bit more solid as I recall, but I haven't looked at the laser recently. Those infrequent TCM showings satisfy me for a Raintree fix so I don't have to resort to the laser.
 

RolandL

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It is? The last time I looked at a TCM broadcast, it seemed just as full of aliasing as my laserdisc does. The color did seem a bit more solid as I recall, but I haven't looked at the laser recently. Those infrequent TCM showings satisfy me for a Raintree fix so I don't have to resort to the laser.

Maybe I was thinking of the roadshow version which I don't think TCM shows anymore. I copied the roadshow to VHS tape. I remember it did show a tiny bit more info on the sides than the laser disc. The roadshow is also available on VHS tape on eBay. Look for the one with Reconstructed Original Version at the bottom of the front.
 
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OliverK

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Maybe I was thinking of the roadshow version which I don't think TCM shows anymore. I copied the roadshow to VHS tape. I remember it did show a tiny bit more info on the sides than the laser disc. The roadshow is also available on VHS tape on eBay. Look for the one with Reconstructed Original Version at the bottom of the front.

The LD looks a lot better, as does the TCM airing of the short version. Frankly after having watched this in 35mm from a collector only a proper Blu-ray release will do. If that doesn't work out I will rather befriend that collector in order to rewatch it again in a year or two :D
 
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Josh Steinberg

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I think the lack of a mention speaks volumes for Warner's plans for this title: there likely are none.

Warner has a policy that it will only release a BD if the disc looks perfect. The elements require a costly restoration to be returned to that level, and the restoration would cost more than the BD sales could ever hope to gross. Warner also has a policy where they will not allow an outside vendor to work on their films, even though that vendor might be able to provide the same service at a reduced rate. Warner is unwilling to release a less than pristine version on BD, is unable to afford the in-house cost to restore the title, and unwilling to let someone else do it for less. It's a catch-22 of their own making.

I'd love to be wrong, but with Warner titles, if it's not coming out, that's generally the reason.

(It's the same with their vintage 3D holdings. They spent upwards of $300,000 each to do the House Of Wax, Dial M For Murder and Kiss Me Kate discs, more than those could expect to make, so the future of other classic 3D titles from Warner is in limbo. The 3D Film Archive has demonstrated they can do the same or similar quality restoration work for only $30,000 a title, which those discs could be expected to recoup, but Warner is unwilling to let an outside group work on the film. They don't know how to do it for that little and won't let the people who do know how to, so we just don't get the titles at all.

Same with the Cinerama title Brothers Grimm. Restoring it in house would cost far more than it could ever make. Dave Strohmaier, who did all the other Cinerama discs, knows how to do it on an affordable budget that a rerelease could actually recoup, but since Warner doesn't allow outside vendors to work on their titles, and since the only way they know how to restore it is unaffordably expensive, it just won't happen. Another catch-22.

Don't get me wrong - Warner does amazing work on what they do release. But their strict adherence to these internal policies does not always make practical sense in my opinion, and some titles remain stuck in limbo because of it.)
 

commander richardson

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about El Cid

Amen, Bruce, would love to see this done correctly, as the saying goes they don't make them like this anymore. and i don't think they could.
Can someone tell me .........WHY................El CID and FALL OF THR R .EMPIRE have not been released on BD in USA ........?????????????????????..........and just for information the BBC [ uk ] over Xmas screened : Around the World in 80 days in HD............and the picture looked fantastic...............infact I doubt it would look better in BD..............so why is this one not out in BD as well...............perhaps nobody in the relative film companies are



bothered and full of young blokes who have not heard of these movies...........there must be a reason...........
 

Robert Harris

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I think the lack of a mention speaks volumes for Warner's plans for this title: there likely are none.

Warner has a policy that it will only release a BD if the disc looks perfect. The elements require a costly restoration to be returned to that level, and the restoration would cost more than the BD sales could ever hope to gross. Warner also has a policy where they will not allow an outside vendor to work on their films, even though that vendor might be able to provide the same service at a reduced rate. Warner is unwilling to release a less than pristine version on BD, is unable to afford the in-house cost to restore the title, and unwilling to let someone else do it for less. It's a catch-22 of their own making.

I'd love to be wrong, but with Warner titles, if it's not coming out, that's generally the reason.

(It's the same with their vintage 3D holdings. They spent upwards of $300,000 each to do the House Of Wax, Dial M For Murder and Kiss Me Kate discs, more than those could expect to make, so the future of other classic 3D titles from Warner is in limbo. The 3D Film Archive has demonstrated they can do the same or similar quality restoration work for only $30,000 a title, which those discs could be expected to recoup, but Warner is unwilling to let an outside group work on the film. They don't know how to do it for that little and won't let the people who do know how to, so we just don't get the titles at all.

Same with the Cinerama title Brothers Grimm. Restoring it in house would cost far more than it could ever make. Dave Strohmaier, who did all the other Cinerama discs, knows how to do it on an affordable budget that a rerelease could actually recoup, but since Warner doesn't allow outside vendors to work on their titles, and since the only way they know how to restore it is unaffordably expensive, it just won't happen. Another catch-22.

Don't get me wrong - Warner does amazing work on what they do release. But their strict adherence to these internal policies does not always make practical sense in my opinion, and some titles remain stuck in limbo because of it.)

Great many assumptions here, and many incorrect.
 

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