Are you ready for Microsoft to remotely scan your Xbox? (1 Viewer)

[Jeff Kleist]

You don't even need a mod chip to play copied games for some consoles. There's a way to do this for the PSX that was shown on The Screen Savers (TechTV) a while ago. It's only a matter of time before they find out how to do this with other consoles.

That method only worked on first run PSXs (SPCH-1001 if memory serves). There is no way to do it with new consoles out of the box. They learned from Sony's error.

What games DESPERITELY need: A region 0

 

[BrianB]

So you have to make a choice: mod your X-Box or play games online? If you mod your X-Box, I think you shouldn't be complaining. You don't get online games, but you get to play games from around the world, which gives you something others don't have.

I think that's incredibly shortsighted & niave, Morgan. Yup, Microsoft have the right to refuse service, but why refuse it to the hardcore? The people willing to pay /extra/ to play the latest obscure RPG or shooter from Japan? The people willing to pay $60 or $70 just to play Shenmue 2 on the DC?

Another example of this shortsightedness: Sony recently won a lawsuit in the UK against a company developing modchips for the PS2. During the case, thanks to the defence's screwups, they managed to persuade the judge that ALL modifying of machines to play imported games is illegal.

Unfortunately, it's not the pirates that get stopped in that case - it's the hardcore that PAY for their games that lose out & are criminalised. That's just plain wrong.

If Microsoft had stuck to their original pledge of publishers being able to make games region free, I may have had more sympathy with your arguments. But they didn't - they stuck some pretty stupid restrictions on it (that I don't think I'm in a position to share unfortunately) that makes it unworkable.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

MS is providing you with the console for a price. What you do with it is your choice. When you sign up for XBL, they have the right to not offer you the service if you have modded your console. Do I agree with their decision? No, I don't. But I understand why they did it and it's completely legal, so I see nothing wrong with it.

The thing for PSX I was referring to doesn't involve any special software. What you need is a PSX (not a PSOne), a pen, and a legitimate game. You have to open the pen, take out the little spring, open the PSX, put the spring in the part of the PSX where under the top a little thing pushes a button to tell the PSX that it's closed (it's in the back, right side of the underside of the lid), then load up the legitimate game. After the second PlayStation logo pops up (the black background with the PSX logo) you switch out the legitimate game for a copied game, and it will load right up. No mods, and the only special hardware you need is a pen spring.

 

[BrianB]

Ah, the old disk swaptrick. Done by many a person in the early days of the PSX & helped to wreck their drive mechanisms

 

[MikeAlletto]

No, I don't. But I understand why they did it and it's completely legal, so I see nothing wrong with it.

Is it really though? What does the user agreement say that comes with the console itself? Does it say that Microsoft can basically come into your home (via your ISP, into the console that you bought) and disable it and not let it work with online games? I understand the xbox live part says they can, but how does that override what the hardware one might say? I bet they get away with it because no one bothers to fight them on it, therefore no precident is set so they basically get away with whatever they want to.

I could see if someone modded the ethernet card to do something funky, then they could say we don't support the changes you made to it, but moding the box itself? It still does what it was designed to do, but now it does more. If it doesn't interfere with the network then I can't see how they can do what they want to do.

And Microsoft wonders why people don't like them?

 

[BrianB]

What games DESPERITELY need: A region 0

And Microsoft said they were going to allow just that. They still do. No publisher has taken them up on it because of some stupid rules that make it impractical :-/

 

[Morgan Jolley]

It still does what it was designed to do, but now it does more

But in some cases, it does things that are illegal (play illegally copied games). That's why they're doing this.

Why doesn't MS just include a special ID code for ALL of the future online-enabled games so that if someone copies the game and tries to play it online, that copy of the game can't run online at the same time as another copy of the same disc because the ID codes are the same? Don't they do this for some PC games? It might not cut down on the amount of pirating, but it sure will piss off people with illegal copies of online games (the only games that will be effected by what they're doing).

 

[John Kilroy]

It seems as if they are taking the mod chip problem seriously.
"This person will be responsible for collecting, evaluating and conducting analysis of modification chips as well as tracking information & feeding back to the product team. The candidate will also be responsible for conducting security design reviews on Xbox hardware & software, and will assist in designing hardware detection code fragments to be embedded in future versions of the product."
"Preference is given to those with hardware backgrounds and game hacking knowledge."
Good for them. Hire a hacker to deak with the hackers. As the owner of an unmodded Xbox who will be trying online play, I couldn't be happier.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

THey can't manufacture a unique serial into every unit. It's impossible. They can do a WRITTEN code like with computer software. Sega did just that with their online titles.

And hiring a hacker is the only prayer they have at stopping hackers

 

[Mike_G]

I'm not a pirate, even though I have the equipment to do so. I pay for all the games I have. That said, I desperately want a mod chip soley for this new XBox Linux project. Currently, the only way to get Linux to run on the XBox is to have a mod chip. Does that make me a pirate? No? Do people without an open mind think of me as a pirate? Yes. (do I care? no).

Now, does that mean that M$ can do nasty things to me if they see I have a modded XBox? Yes. I hate that. Once that machine is in my house, they should stay off it. I'm tired of this intrusiveness that has become popular lately. What interest does M$ have in going after modders? If I want to play import games or use Linux, dammit, I should be able to. I'm not hurting anyone in doing so.

Just an edit: the XBox Linux team is going through GREAT pains to not do anything that breaks the DMCA. Everything they're doing is legal.

Mike

 

[JoshF]

I wouldn't have any problem with this if it wasn't Microsoft scanning my system. I don't trust them, simple as that.

But that's just me.

 

[John Kilroy]

Mike,

Microsoft isn't stopping you from using your Xbox as a Linux box, a toaster, a doorstep, a counterweight, or a bludgeoning weapon. Go for it. Take pictures and post them here.

As long as you give them your $199, you have fulfilled your part of the deal, and there's nothing they can do about it.

 

[Dave Falasco]

Josh, based on some of the posts I've read here in the last year or so, it most assuredly is NOT just you...

 

[Mike_G]

John,
I think you mean if I put Linux on it permanently. If I want to turn off Linux and play an XBox Live game of football, I'm opening myself up to getting scanned.
The reason I haven't done it yet is because I'm waiting for these little issues to be shaken out of the Linux distribution. They might NEVER get resolved, so I'm keeping my eye on it.
I don't want to put Linux on it for anti-M$ reasons, I just think it would be a cool-looking Linux box. My Dreamcast runs Linux now but I'm having trouble with Apache :frowning: .
Mike

 

[John Kilroy]

Yeah, that would be cool looking. Of course, you'd need a black and green keyboard.
As far as Xbox Live goes, MS is just doing what they feel is necessary to enforce the terms of their agreement. They are offering a service/product that people can choose to buy or not buy. If they choose to buy it, they choose to accept the terms and conditions of the arrangement. One thing I get sick of is all of the pirates and their righteous indignation about their right to use things as they see fit, freedom of expression, the right to privacy (which doesn't exist) doing it for "testing" purposes, blah blah blah.
By the way, I'm not attributing these comments to you, Mike. I don't know you, and if you say you just want to run Linux, that's good enough for me. But sometimes it's hard to hear people like you in the overwhelming din of of the pirate kiddies claiming there inherent right of access to data, "information wants to be free," yada, yada, yada.
Good luck with Linux. I am using it for the first time today as part of a penetration testing project and so far I like what I see.

 

[Mike_G]

John,
If I were a pirate I would have had a modchip long ago.
Linux is ok, but it needs some work still. Over the weekend while I was installing RH 7.3, it set my monitor to a scan rate that was out of its range AFTER I told it what model my monitor was, leaving me with no way of working so I had to force reboot. Why did it do that?
To me, Linux is now where Win95 was years ago.
I LIKE the keyboard idea
Mike

 

[Dave F]

Of course, if they didn't do this, and online cheating was rampant, everyone would be bitching about their lack of action.
-Dave

 

[Joe Szott]

One more tidbit about why MS would care about modchips where Sony does not: MS is a paid subscription per month to maintain all the servers/infrastructure to play the games. Sony is an open structure where they only provide the capability, each company programs it's own payment structure (like on the PC.) The difference here is that if a modchip allows a user to play Xbox Live! without paying $9.95 a month, then MS could be out a lot of money in costs! Plus they have pirates chewing up the bandwidth of actual paying customers and slowing everyone down.

They need to get paid to provide this service, if you don't agree then don't play Xbox Live! If you're the type that likes to use cable descramblers or illegal satellite Scards to get free service, thank goodness MS is taking steps to safeguard their system from you in advance.

Again, if you don't like it -- then just don't sign up for it!

 

[BrianB]

Sony most definitely DOES care about modchips, Joe.