What's new

Are you acclimated to Star Trek: TOS Remastered? (1 Viewer)

jcroy

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
7,916
Real Name
jr
The other thing was, Enterprise premiered right around the time of the 9/11 attacks, which also happened to be my first week of college. Given both the circumstances in my own life (being away from home for the first time) and the larger world, making time to follow a TV show I wasn't enjoying didn't seem like a high priority.

(As an aside).

Similar thing happened to me when I first went to a college away from home (w/o any 9-11 type event). Following tv shows was no longer a priority for me. I was more interested in partying and booze, than watching tv. :)

In those days, the last tv show I followed closely was the first season of the original MacGyver. After that I largely dropped regular tv viewing for almost two decades. I tried to follow the first season of TNG but found it lackluster at the time, and subsequently didn't watch it regularly.

Even today, I find I don't have any emotional (or sentimental) attachment to tv shows which had their first-runs in the late-1980s, 1990s, and early->mid 2000s.
 
Last edited:

jcroy

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
7,916
Real Name
jr
Enterprise was produced several years before the rebooted movies so they couldn't have been chasing those new, younger fans. The first reboot movie came out 4 years after Enterprise left the air.

From watching Enterprise several times in reruns over the years, I got the impression their target audience were the folks who followed the TNG, DS9 and Voyager shows over the 1990s.

I never really got the sense they were targeting the hardcore TOS fans.

For the entire 1990s and early-2000s, I only really watched TOS reruns. I didn't really watch TNG, DS9, and Voyager in their first-runs nor in the initial reruns (other than partially the first season of TNG). For several of these years, I didn't have cable and couldn't get any first-run Trek channels OTA. (At several points in time, I didn't even have a tv at home).
 
Last edited:

Josh Steinberg

Premium
Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2003
Messages
26,271
Real Name
Josh Steinberg
The thing is, I think it's possible to produce a show now that feels like it's the TOS era or earlier. I may be in the minority among old school Trek fans, but for the most part, the reboot movies do feel like they're from that period to me. It's not really about the effects or the shooting and lighting style, it's getting the vibe right. To me, Pine's Kirk (especially in ST'09) feels like the young kid version of Shatner's Kirk.

Maybe part of it is that TOS wasn't obsessed or even all that interested in technobabble, but the later shows were. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.) Had Enterprise done less of that, maybe it would have felt "older" - Enterprise certainly feels like it comes before TNG/DS9/VOY most of the time.

That episode with cloning Trip for the transplant he needed, I think it was great - ethical questions on the edge of the final frontier, riveting story, felt appropriate as a demonstration of how the medicine hasn't yet evolved to where it was in TOS, etc. Just one episode but a nice example of them at their best I think.
 

jcroy

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
7,916
Real Name
jr
The thing is, I think it's possible to produce a show now that feels like it's the TOS era or earlier. I may be in the minority among old school Trek fans, but for the most part, the reboot movies do feel like they're from that period to me. It's not really about the effects or the shooting and lighting style, it's getting the vibe right. To me, Pine's Kirk (especially in ST'09) feels like the young kid version of Shatner's Kirk.

The first time I saw the 2009 Star Trek reboot, I found it very jarring.

Eventually after watching it over a dozen times, I came to accept it. To me, it was very much an acquired taste.

Usually I don't give a movie/show a dozen chances. Star Trek and Star Wars are the exceptions.
 

Carabimero

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
5,207
Location
Los Angeles
Real Name
Alan
It's like the definition of pornography: "I know it when I see it." Same with a pre-TOS show actually feeling like it is pre-TOS. I wish only the best for DISCOVERY but have to say it is not off to an auspicious production start from everything I have gathered.
 

BobO'Link

Senior HTF Member
Joined
May 3, 2008
Messages
11,449
Location
Mid-South
Real Name
Howie
It's like the definition of pornography: "I know it when I see it." Same with a pre-TOS show actually feeling like it is pre-TOS. I wish only the best for DISCOVERY but have to say it is not off to an auspicious production start from everything I have gathered.
I read somewhere that the main showrunner stepped down. Had too many irons in the fire I believe. I also recall reading it was only going to be on the CBS paid streaming service. Is that correct? Has the first episode aired?

I'm a *bit* curious about the series but after the movie reboot just can't get too worked up about Trek any longer. They were "OK" SF/Action films but *not* Star Trek - at least not "my" Star Trek. Somewhere along the line they forgot Star Trek is about the story and how you got there and kind of left that part out leaving only the action stuff you can get anywhere. Sure, they have all the nods to "old school" Trek, lines/scenes to hopefully entice/placate us old-timers, but none of the heart. It all has a rather generic feel with rehashed stories. I feel about them the same way I felt when I came out of the theater after seeing ST:TMP the first time. Pretty visuals, but we've seen the story, told better, already. In all fairness I've not seen the third film but am in no rush to do so. I figure when it's on sale for $5 or less I'll pick up a copy. Based on the first two that's about all I'm willing to spend.
 

jcroy

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
7,916
Real Name
jr
I feel about them the same way I felt when I came out of the theater after seeing ST:TMP the first time. Pretty visuals, but we've seen the story, told better, already. In all fairness I've not seen the third film but am in no rush to do so.

The first ST film I ever watched was Wrath of Khan.

At the time, I had been watching the TOS reruns for about 2 years or so prior. Even with my limited knowledge of Star Trek at the time, initially I didn't think WoK felt like the original TOS.

Overall, the initial Star Trek TOS movies were also another case of an "acquired taste" for me.


In contrast when the Star Trek movies moved on to the TNG cast, I thought the movies felt like another extended two part TNG episodes.
 

jcroy

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
7,916
Real Name
jr
It's like the definition of pornography: "I know it when I see it." Same with a pre-TOS show actually feeling like it is pre-TOS. I wish only the best for DISCOVERY but have to say it is not off to an auspicious production start from everything I have gathered.

At this point, I don't have any expectations of chronological authenticity for Discovery.

My expectations are tempered down to the level of the reboot films.

Though I might check out some of the initial novels for Discovery. There's some rumors that they might be canon.
 

jcroy

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
7,916
Real Name
jr
(On the subject of the reboot movies and novels).

To come to think of it, I found I actually liked reading the novelizations of the first two reboot movies, than watching the actual movies. (The third reboot movie doesn't appear to have a novelization yet).

In spite of the canon being in an alternate "JJverse", the books didn't really invoke any of the "visuals" which I found jarring at first in the movies.
 

TJPC

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2016
Messages
4,820
Location
Hamilton Ontario
Real Name
Terry Carroll
I am the opposite of picky when it comes to Star Trek. I am old enough to have watched each TV series in first run and saw all the movies as they appeared in the theatre.
I found the reboot movies jarring at first, especially the first one, but in viewing it again, was able to wrap my mind around the alternate time line and really enjoy it and the next two. I am really looking forward to a new TV show if they ever get their act together.
As my friend has said, if there was a two hour fart contest on Blu Ray and labeled Star Trek something or other I probably would buy it!
 

trevanian

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Sep 28, 2015
Messages
190
Location
domestic US
Real Name
Kevin
Here's a question about acclimation, Star Trek, and science fiction TV shows.

I was watching Enterprise and Braga said he wasn't sure why the series tanked in the ratings, whether it was because they tried character driven stories or whether ST had simply been on the air too long and people were bored with it.

I have a different possible explanation. I remember watching the new Battlestar Galactica while Enterprise was running, and Galactica was so dynamic, not just with the writing or visual style but the special effects looked fresh. Then I would turn on Enterprise, and Galactica made Star Trek look like it was standing still.

I remember Robert Beltran was unhappy during VOYAGER because he felt the series was too complacent, old hat, and he wanted to shake things up. It never happened (and his relationship with the studio soured). Maybe it should have.

My question: do we acclimate to a new style or state of the art, such as BSG at the time, that renders past shows, such as Enterprise, obsolete? Thoughts?

Sometimes the style of the new hot thing works against it. Personally, although I love about 80% of nuBSG and have rewatched the series a few times, I found the visual style to be godawful bad and still do. Making your show almost entirely under- AND over-exposed (in the same frame!) is really hard on my mind, almost a precursor to the godawful Abrams crap in TREK09 and INTO DARKNESS, which made me wonder 'why shoot on film if you're going to trash the image so badly?'

I think the scenes on the basestar in s3 were practically like a 21st century version of what they used to do on SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN whenever Stephanie Powers and Bigfoot would show up ... y'know, trot out the diffusion filter times about six and let the lights flare out in a blurry mess.

Story wise and tone wise, nuBSG is probably exactly where ENTERPRISE needed to be, but I don't think TPTB would have permitted it, and the 'creatives' would probably not have known how to go there (and get it right) either. Then again, I find ENT and VOYAGER largely unwatchable, and haven't even made it through half of either series.

I think Beltran was absolutely right about the play-it-safe aspect, too, but then again, I only like TOS and DS9, and even with DS9, I think the founders were a bad idea and the show should have been about Sisko realizing he was on the wrong side of the Maquis conflict.

Much more compelled by the human/humane component of TREK than the 'weird aliens who aren't that interesting' aspect. Was hoping that was where DISCOVERY would be headed, and expecting that, coupled with contemporary interest in surprises (lead character turning out to be a Romulan spy, that kind of thing) making a new spin on an old era.
 

jcroy

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
7,916
Real Name
jr
Sometimes the style of the new hot thing works against it. Personally, although I love about 80% of nuBSG and have rewatched the series a few times, I found the visual style to be godawful bad and still do. Making your show almost entirely under- AND over-exposed (in the same frame!) is really hard on my mind, almost a precursor to the godawful Abrams crap in TREK09 and INTO DARKNESS, which made me wonder 'why shoot on film if you're going to trash the image so badly?'

I think the scenes on the basestar in s3 were practically like a 21st century version of what they used to do on SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN whenever Stephanie Powers and Bigfoot would show up ... y'know, trot out the diffusion filter times about six and let the lights flare out in a blurry mess.

Interesting. I didn't know nu-BSG was filmed this way to deliberately look "480i sd".

I thought the crappy looking image on nu-BSG was due to the limitations of the mpeg2 sd video on my dvds. ;)


With that being said, I get the impression NCIS might be doing something similar in post-production. According to the NCIS imdb page, it mentions camera models which look relatively current. But the video image on the CBS broadcasts has a soft crappier "sd" resolution look to it.

If I had to guess, the "crappifying" of the original hd video in post-production is an "aesthetic" decision by the producers.
 

jcroy

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
7,916
Real Name
jr
When I first watch the nu-BSG blurays, initially I thought it was just Universal being really lazy and doing a half-assed job of mastering the blurays.

I guess that wasn't the case.
 

jcroy

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
7,916
Real Name
jr
Much more compelled by the human/humane component of TREK than the 'weird aliens who aren't that interesting' aspect. Was hoping that was where DISCOVERY would be headed, and expecting that, coupled with contemporary interest in surprises (lead character turning out to be a Romulan spy, that kind of thing) making a new spin on an old era.

When I was younger, I was mostly fascinated by the "surface" stuff like: gunfights, spaceships, super-hi-tech gizmos, FTL travel, space aliens, etc ... in sci-fi type movies and tv shows. As I got older and watched so much lousy sci-fi over the decades, the "surface" stuff wasn't so exciting anymore.

Nowadays I look for a compelling story which draws one into the "human/humane" issues and the alien equivalents. For example, such as the Londo Mollari character in Babylon 5 starting off as a buffoon "comic relief" type character and eventually becoming something very tragic.
 

jcroy

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
7,916
Real Name
jr
(More generally).

In term of acclimation to newer cgi special effects in movies and tv shows, I've found that I never really completely embraced it.

I think the point when I realized that newer cgi-heavy stuff was here to stay and becoming the norm in sci-fi, was when I first saw the 2007 Transformers movie and a few other films from that mid-2000s time period such as The Island, Revenge of the Sith, etc ...

It seems like the light flares, saturated colors, etc ... along with the heavy cgi, has been the norm in many sci-fi movies for almost a decade.

These days I wonder if anybody will ever go back to the old style way of doing special effects (from the 60s, 70s, or 80s).
 

jcroy

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
7,916
Real Name
jr
Another thing I found somewhat distracting in the Star Trek shows, is how almost everything looks "shiny" clean. I would have thought an extensively "used" spaceship (or station) would show signs of more wear and tear as time went on

Especially with the way the reboot films were done, everything looks very "spick-n-span clean".
 

trevanian

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Sep 28, 2015
Messages
190
Location
domestic US
Real Name
Kevin
Back in the late 80s, I read an interview with Robert Butler, who directed the original THE CAGE pilot for Trek. He had been approached to do WRATH OF KHAN and turned it down, saying he wanted to it the way he wanted to do the pilot, 'dirty,' with coffeestained uniforms and wear on the walls. I guess Bennett was as unreceptive as Roddenberry, but honestly, I think the Enterprise looking a little broke-down after 40 years (I don't buy the 20 year old line in ST3) would have been great in TWOK, especially since the early script for TWOK had Starfleet abandoning 'to boldly go' in favor of just protecting existing territories -- a throughline that would have triggered Kirk's (apparent) midlife crisis.

VOYAGER really missed the boat in this regard, having so much free power to run the holodeck all the time and not running out of anything is a real curse in BermanTrek 24th century, too much magicbox tech for me (always wished they would find out replication was bad for the universe and they'd have to go back to carrying a finite amount of supplies.)

The abrams films look like they were shot in a Target department store's cosmetic aisles, can't imagine having to work in such a glarey environment (lightbulbs shooting you in the face when you look at a readout AIN'T the way to go.)
 

Josh Steinberg

Premium
Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2003
Messages
26,271
Real Name
Josh Steinberg
always wished they would find out replication was bad for the universe and they'd have to go back to carrying a finite amount of supplies.)

I haven't seen Voyager yet (saw and hated the first episode when it premiered and never returned to it), but on a similar note...

There's a season seven episode of TNG where they discover warp drive is actually harming the universe, and it becomes established fact but is only referenced in a maybe one or a couple other TNG episodes. I can't recall it ever being mentioned in any of the TNG movies or DS9.

I feel like that's the kind of idea that if it's going to brought up, can't be used for just one episode. It has to change everything, or the episode where the idea came from is no longer credible - or the entire series isn't. Either way, it's too major of a concept to be brought up and then discarded.
 

trevanian

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Sep 28, 2015
Messages
190
Location
domestic US
Real Name
Kevin
Yeah, I noticed that -- three years after I pitched the 'replication is bad' idea -- in season 4, they were actively looking for environmental issue eps, which may have continued throughout the run. They DID mention it in later eps, and supposedly VOYAGER's articulated nacelles were to mitigate the effect of warp drive on spacetime, but I don't recall the E-E or any other ships outfitted in that way.

Part of the problem with pitching important ideas is that if you honor them, then you risk upsetting the applecart ... my best pitch would have involved a permanent if slight change to Picard's character, and I have a feeling you'd have needed the actor pitching the idea to make it happen.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest Articles

Forum statistics

Threads
356,814
Messages
5,123,647
Members
144,184
Latest member
H-508
Recent bookmarks
0
Top